Cornman Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I am glad to see this subject brought up. As many of you know my 56 year old wife committed suicide due to long term pain & the Govt policy's to play Doctor, & no she had no mental issues other then those created by many years of pain. As others said pain grinds you down! Peace & health to you all. Cornman 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 It's done using the interstate commerce clause, and we all know who the money is for and whom it is against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Sorry to hear that cornman...that must have been so tough for both of you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I have traded a few emails with Cornman (Joe) and he is a tough guy. At times like this you have to be and you don't have to do it alone. Continued best wishes my friend and you have my number. Chuck 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I am glad to see this subject brought up. As many of you know my 56 year old wife committed suicide due to long term pain & the Govt policy's to play Doctor, & no she had no mental issues other then those created by many years of pain. As others said pain grinds you down! Peace & health to you all. Cornman Tragic to hear that. Yes, it should be talked about. I think people should know that government is very often an additional cruelty that must be tolerated by the sick. This latest intervention will come down hardest on the weakest... As always!! Lol.. Adding new insult to illness...on people with zero voice in the system. Polititions drunk on power and booze will profit somehow on the backs of the weak.I ain't so dumb I can't see that!! Lol!!! The dea is keeping a lock on drugs that might easily unlock mental illness, but these cops lawyersand pols have other agendas!!! Ts all to far gone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornman Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 While we are still kicking this subject around the Lounge, I would like to comment (hopefully with out hijacking the thread) That I received a tremendous response of support from members of our Klipsch Forum back in February & followed up by several loving member in the months since, & that support was -is- priceless. Two member's, Wardsweb & DWI LAWYER attended the Funneral service, just as I know several of you did for our brother Boxx. This forum ROCKs in so many ways. I raise my glass to all of you,,, , A Doss XX of course. Cornman 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Wow. I wasn't even aware that happened, I'm so sorry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted July 22, 2015 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2015 everyone has their own doctor. my docs, who have experience with opiates and pain treatment for actual patients, say, addiction is not that common, but physiologic dependence is fairly common. If you become dependent and are no longer needing opiates, you got surgery or whatever, you can begin Subutex therapy to be de-toxed from opiates. Doctors are very good at this and have worked it out very well. (how long b4 I will have to consult a pol/lawyer before ghetting care under obnamacare?) basically we have two views here.... 1. chronic pain patients with doctors managing there medical problems. seem to do ok. 2. people with no opiate experience, and no pain doctor, and no chronic pain, but who read a lot and want to tell medical community what they should or shouldnt do about opiates. in otherworlds, a typical case of politics and lawyers pretending to know best for others, but always ignoring the elephant....booze and cigaretttes. we live in an agressive alcohol fueled society designed by....pols and lawyers. a smart person - not like me - would say - hey fellas, start with booze and cigs! Was it lawyer driven? Was it doctor driven? Do you know? Do you care?The head of the FDA is a doctor, an MD. I doubt they had politicians testifying regarding at hearings about whether to change the classification. yeah, I care because I am affected. 1. the DEA is how drugs get on different schedules, right? pasted The Obama administration moved Thursday to restrict prescriptions of the most commonly used narcotic painkillers in the U.S. in an attempt to curb widespread abuse. The Drug Enforcement Administration said it would reclassify hydrocodone combination drugs such as Vicodin and put them in the category reserved for medical substances with the highest potential for harm. The "rescheduling" means people will be able to receive the drugs for only up to 90 days without obtaining a new prescription. The opioid pills are taken by millions of Americans, including after dental surgery, for back problems and broken bones. Currently the pills can be refilled up to five times and prescriptions can cover a 180-day period. The new classification will take effect in 45 days, the DEA said. "Today's action recognizes that these products are some of the most addictive and potentially dangerous prescription medications available," said DEA Administrator Michele Leonhart. ------------------------------------------ 2. who is michele leonhart? A doctor? Um, no. she is not a doctor. pasted--Leonhart graduated from Bemidji State University in 1978 with a degree in criminal justice, ------------------------------------ drugs is politics my friend. did you watch the colorado changover to legal pot? yes, therre are doctors in agencies, but rules are made by legislators, cops and lawyers. so do I care? yes I care. I care that my health is in the hands of actual doctors, not cops lawyers and legislators with their political and money agendas. i was on pain meds for several years with no problems of any kind BEFORE michele leonhart, a bureaucrap cop and politician changed the rules and schedules. the change? more inconvenience and insults and cost and much indignity. but why would lawyers and pols care about any that??? LOL!!! jus teasin ya~! your chasin a fly when you should spend your time chasin the big game - booze and cigs. christ, leave the sick people alone, they have enough problems already, don't they? It is good you care, because, as you say, it directly affects you.The DEA does not control which drugs are on what schedule. The FDA provides the determination on the classification of drugs, the DEA implements the determination by the FDA by amending current federal regulations, or implementing new ones. In January of 2012 the Public Advisory Committee met to consider whether HCPs should be reclassified from from III to II. That committee has doctors and pharmacists on it. Not a single lawyer or politician are on that committee. That committee has a consumer representative and an industry representitive on it. They voted 19 to 10 in favor of recommending upscheduling. From there it went to the Director of the FDA, a doctor, who approved and adopted and approved that recommendation. They then sent it to the DEA requesting that they issue new regulations. They are required to go through a rule making process, with more testimony and opportunity for public comment. They implimented the reccomendation of the FDA, announced a New Rule" in the summer of 2014, which became effective in October of 2014. Here is the best synopsis I could find, it happens to be by the pharmacists'association, which took a neutral position. http://www.pharmacist.com/fda-advisory-committee-votes-favor-hydrocodone-rescheduling Here are the minutes of the Advisory Committee meeting which show who the members were and their backgrounds. All if the testimony from that meeting is available in line, it was available for live streaming at the time. All submissions are available, as well as all of briefing materials given to the members prior to the meeting. 19 to 10 is about a 2 to 1 ratio. It doesn't mean they were right. There obviously 10 members with an opposing viewpoint. In 2012 there was also a meeting to upschedule Hydocodone, this was opposed by HHS, and the vote was about 11 to 1 against as I recall. So what changed? New data about rise in prescriptions for HCPs, overdose data, epidemogical studies, etc. At this meeting in 2013 some family members of on people who overdosed on HCPs testified, which I am sure had an emotional impact. Hydrocodone had always been a schedule II drug. Hydrocodone, less than 15mg, mixed with other substances was a class III. It looks to me, the big concern of the doctors on the committee is that oxycodone, including Oxycotin, prescriptions have remain flat along with production, while hydrocodone has surged over the same time period. The facts just do not support your conclusion that the upscheduling was the result of politicians and lawyers. Lawyers, I am sure, wrote the amended regulations, but that is what lawyers do. If the committee of the FDA had reccomended against upscheduling, it never would have happened. So if you want to paint with broad strokes, yes politicians and lawyers are to blame, for everything you find right with the country, and everything you find wrong. But the reccomendation in this specific instance wad 19 doctors and pharmacists against 10 of the same. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted July 22, 2015 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2015 I agree with the points made that those who shouldn't be making decisions for the rest of us have the power to do so. Unfortunately, in many cases, we were the ones who gave them the power. It is even more unfortunate that once their incompetence, or personal agenda, becomes known to us there is nothing we can do to reverse things. The following quote says it all: "Democracies were based on a false presumtion- the theory that all people were fit to rule. It granted intelligence where there was no intelligence. It presumed ability where there was not the slightest trace of any. It gave the idiot the same political standing as the wise man, the crackpot the same political opportunity as the man of well-grounded sense, the weakling the same voice as the strong man. It was government by emotion rather than by judgment." From Empire by Clifford Simak, 1951. Maynard Great quote, from a great book. Which is why we have a Republic. James Madison expressed it very well in Federalist Paoer No. 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 everyone has their own doctor. my docs, who have experience with opiates and pain treatment for actual patients, say, addiction is not that common, but physiologic dependence is fairly common. If you become dependent and are no longer needing opiates, you got surgery or whatever, you can begin Subutex therapy to be de-toxed from opiates. Doctors are very good at this and have worked it out very well. (how long b4 I will have to consult a pol/lawyer before ghetting care under obnamacare?) basically we have two views here.... 1. chronic pain patients with doctors managing there medical problems. seem to do ok. 2. people with no opiate experience, and no pain doctor, and no chronic pain, but who read a lot and want to tell medical community what they should or shouldnt do about opiates. in otherworlds, a typical case of politics and lawyers pretending to know best for others, but always ignoring the elephant....booze and cigaretttes. we live in an agressive alcohol fueled society designed by....pols and lawyers. a smart person - not like me - would say - hey fellas, start with booze and cigs! Was it lawyer driven? Was it doctor driven? Do you know? Do you care?The head of the FDA is a doctor, an MD. I doubt they had politicians testifying regarding at hearings about whether to change the classification. yeah, I care because I am affected. 1. the DEA is how drugs get on different schedules, right? pasted The Obama administration moved Thursday to restrict prescriptions of the most commonly used narcotic painkillers in the U.S. in an attempt to curb widespread abuse. The Drug Enforcement Administration said it would reclassify hydrocodone combination drugs such as Vicodin and put them in the category reserved for medical substances with the highest potential for harm. The "rescheduling" means people will be able to receive the drugs for only up to 90 days without obtaining a new prescription. The opioid pills are taken by millions of Americans, including after dental surgery, for back problems and broken bones. Currently the pills can be refilled up to five times and prescriptions can cover a 180-day period. The new classification will take effect in 45 days, the DEA said. "Today's action recognizes that these products are some of the most addictive and potentially dangerous prescription medications available," said DEA Administrator Michele Leonhart. ------------------------------------------ 2. who is michele leonhart? A doctor? Um, no. she is not a doctor. pasted--Leonhart graduated from Bemidji State University in 1978 with a degree in criminal justice, ------------------------------------ drugs is politics my friend. did you watch the colorado changover to legal pot? yes, therre are doctors in agencies, but rules are made by legislators, cops and lawyers. so do I care? yes I care. I care that my health is in the hands of actual doctors, not cops lawyers and legislators with their political and money agendas. i was on pain meds for several years with no problems of any kind BEFORE michele leonhart, a bureaucrap cop and politician changed the rules and schedules. the change? more inconvenience and insults and cost and much indignity. but why would lawyers and pols care about any that??? LOL!!! jus teasin ya~! your chasin a fly when you should spend your time chasin the big game - booze and cigs. christ, leave the sick people alone, they have enough problems already, don't they? It is good you care, because, as you say, it directly affects you.The DEA does not control which drugs are on what schedule. The FDA provides the determination on the classification of drugs, the DEA implements the determination by the FDA by amending current federal regulations, or implementing new ones. In January of 2012 the Public Advisory Committee met to consider whether HCPs should be reclassified from from III to II. That committee has doctors and pharmacists on it. Not a single lawyer or politician are on that committee. That committee has a consumer representative and an industry representitive on it. They voted 19 to 10 in favor of recommending upscheduling. From there it went to the Director of the FDA, a doctor, who approved and adopted and approved that recommendation. They then sent it to the DEA requesting that they issue new regulations. They are required to go through a rule making process, with more testimony and opportunity for public comment. They implimented the reccomendation of the FDA, announced a New Rule" in the summer of 2014, which became effective in October of 2014. Here is the best synopsis I could find, it happens to be by the pharmacists'association, which took a neutral position.http://www.pharmacist.com/fda-advisory-committee-votes-favor-hydrocodone-rescheduling Here are the minutes of the Advisory Committee meeting which show who the members were and their backgrounds. All if the testimony from that meeting is available in line, it was available for live streaming at the time. All submissions are available, as well as all of briefing materials given to the members prior to the meeting. 19 to 10 is about a 2 to 1 ratio. It doesn't mean they were right. There obviously 10 members with an opposing viewpoint. In 2012 there was also a meeting to upschedule Hydocodone, this was opposed by HHS, and the vote was about 11 to 1 against as I recall. So what changed? New data about rise in prescriptions for HCPs, overdose data, epidemogical studies, etc. At this meeting in 2013 some family members of on people who overdosed on HCPs testified, which I am sure had an emotional impact. Hydrocodone had always been a schedule II drug. Hydrocodone, less than 15mg, mixed with other substances was a class III. It looks to me, the big concern of the doctors on the committee is that oxycodone, including Oxycotin, prescriptions have remain flat along with production, while hydrocodone has surged over the same time period. The facts just do not support your conclusion that the upscheduling was the result of politicians and lawyers. Lawyers, I am sure, wrote the amended regulations, but that is what lawyers do. If the committee of the FDA had reccomended against upscheduling, it never would have happened. So if you want to paint with broad strokes, yes politicians and lawyers are to blame, for everything you find right with the country, and everything you find wrong. But the reccomendation in this specific instance wad 19 doctors and pharmacists against 10 of the same. Travis That's the process. My concerns are the political motivations. You can say DEA is just some "typists" following direction of doctors, but that's politically naive. Here's a quote from the director of the American Academy of Pain Management: "Despite the efforts of the Academy’s policy and advocacy staff to suggest less restrictive alternative strategies to reduce misuse, abuse, and diversion of HCCP, rescheduling is soon to be a reality. While we remain concerned about the potential implications of this change for patients’ access to HCCP, we hope that pain management clinicians will find ways to accommodate patients’ needs with minimal disruption. Please inform us if you encounter unanticipated problems, or if you have suggestions for practices that you have found helpful in responding to the change in scheduling. And, as always, thank you for being a member of the Academy, the nation’s premier organization for all clinicians who provide pain care." Our total drug policy in USA is derived from the global war on drugs, devised and directed by the USA. in that realm, no one is concerned about health matters of sick people. No one. The little people at the bottom of all that heap of policing are always the losers, just like this time. From prison terms to pain patients, none of this war on drugs that is about health or helping people. That's never the motivation of these laws and regulations. If health was of interest BOOZE and CIGARETTES would be the targets. Doesn't take a genius. There is an old expression that people can not comprehend the meaning of a forest when they are counting branches on a tree. I'm way too stupid to argue the inner detail of government rule making processes with you that are filled with legal jargon. But not so stupid that I don't understand what motivates kings, crooks, moneymen, and power mongers in any society. Just because the weak are powerless doesn't mean they can be fooled by legal snowjobs. Why? Because we can all see the forest no matter how many trees put up. My doc is extremely wise and experienced and not a politician. She explained the great financial pressure through Medicare that is always a federal hammer. This is far more involved than is being represented here. Thanks for the discussion. Note: dictated to, and typed by Jessica for Joe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Note: dictated to, and typed by Jessica for Joe. Dang, Jessica! You must be really nice to do all that for Joe. Welcome to the land of the crazies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted July 22, 2015 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2015 everyone has their own doctor. my docs, who have experience with opiates and pain treatment for actual patients, say, addiction is not that common, but physiologic dependence is fairly common. If you become dependent and are no longer needing opiates, you got surgery or whatever, you can begin Subutex therapy to be de-toxed from opiates. Doctors are very good at this and have worked it out very well. (how long b4 I will have to consult a pol/lawyer before ghetting care under obnamacare?) basically we have two views here.... 1. chronic pain patients with doctors managing there medical problems. seem to do ok. 2. people with no opiate experience, and no pain doctor, and no chronic pain, but who read a lot and want to tell medical community what they should or shouldnt do about opiates. in otherworlds, a typical case of politics and lawyers pretending to know best for others, but always ignoring the elephant....booze and cigaretttes. we live in an agressive alcohol fueled society designed by....pols and lawyers. a smart person - not like me - would say - hey fellas, start with booze and cigs! Was it lawyer driven? Was it doctor driven? Do you know? Do you care?The head of the FDA is a doctor, an MD. I doubt they had politicians testifying regarding at hearings about whether to change the classification. yeah, I care because I am affected. 1. the DEA is how drugs get on different schedules, right? pasted The Obama administration moved Thursday to restrict prescriptions of the most commonly used narcotic painkillers in the U.S. in an attempt to curb widespread abuse. The Drug Enforcement Administration said it would reclassify hydrocodone combination drugs such as Vicodin and put them in the category reserved for medical substances with the highest potential for harm. The "rescheduling" means people will be able to receive the drugs for only up to 90 days without obtaining a new prescription. The opioid pills are taken by millions of Americans, including after dental surgery, for back problems and broken bones. Currently the pills can be refilled up to five times and prescriptions can cover a 180-day period. The new classification will take effect in 45 days, the DEA said. "Today's action recognizes that these products are some of the most addictive and potentially dangerous prescription medications available," said DEA Administrator Michele Leonhart. ------------------------------------------ 2. who is michele leonhart? A doctor? Um, no. she is not a doctor. pasted--Leonhart graduated from Bemidji State University in 1978 with a degree in criminal justice, ------------------------------------ drugs is politics my friend. did you watch the colorado changover to legal pot? yes, therre are doctors in agencies, but rules are made by legislators, cops and lawyers. so do I care? yes I care. I care that my health is in the hands of actual doctors, not cops lawyers and legislators with their political and money agendas. i was on pain meds for several years with no problems of any kind BEFORE michele leonhart, a bureaucrap cop and politician changed the rules and schedules. the change? more inconvenience and insults and cost and much indignity. but why would lawyers and pols care about any that??? LOL!!! jus teasin ya~! your chasin a fly when you should spend your time chasin the big game - booze and cigs. christ, leave the sick people alone, they have enough problems already, don't they? It is good you care, because, as you say, it directly affects you.The DEA does not control which drugs are on what schedule. The FDA provides the determination on the classification of drugs, the DEA implements the determination by the FDA by amending current federal regulations, or implementing new ones. In January of 2012 the Public Advisory Committee met to consider whether HCPs should be reclassified from from III to II. That committee has doctors and pharmacists on it. Not a single lawyer or politician are on that committee. That committee has a consumer representative and an industry representitive on it. They voted 19 to 10 in favor of recommending upscheduling. From there it went to the Director of the FDA, a doctor, who approved and adopted and approved that recommendation. They then sent it to the DEA requesting that they issue new regulations. They are required to go through a rule making process, with more testimony and opportunity for public comment. They implimented the reccomendation of the FDA, announced a New Rule" in the summer of 2014, which became effective in October of 2014. Here is the best synopsis I could find, it happens to be by the pharmacists'association, which took a neutral position.http://www.pharmacist.com/fda-advisory-committee-votes-favor-hydrocodone-rescheduling Here are the minutes of the Advisory Committee meeting which show who the members were and their backgrounds. All if the testimony from that meeting is available in line, it was available for live streaming at the time. All submissions are available, as well as all of briefing materials given to the members prior to the meeting. 19 to 10 is about a 2 to 1 ratio. It doesn't mean they were right. There obviously 10 members with an opposing viewpoint. In 2012 there was also a meeting to upschedule Hydocodone, this was opposed by HHS, and the vote was about 11 to 1 against as I recall. So what changed? New data about rise in prescriptions for HCPs, overdose data, epidemogical studies, etc. At this meeting in 2013 some family members of on people who overdosed on HCPs testified, which I am sure had an emotional impact. Hydrocodone had always been a schedule II drug. Hydrocodone, less than 15mg, mixed with other substances was a class III. It looks to me, the big concern of the doctors on the committee is that oxycodone, including Oxycotin, prescriptions have remain flat along with production, while hydrocodone has surged over the same time period. The facts just do not support your conclusion that the upscheduling was the result of politicians and lawyers. Lawyers, I am sure, wrote the amended regulations, but that is what lawyers do. If the committee of the FDA had reccomended against upscheduling, it never would have happened. So if you want to paint with broad strokes, yes politicians and lawyers are to blame, for everything you find right with the country, and everything you find wrong. But the reccomendation in this specific instance wad 19 doctors and pharmacists against 10 of the same. Travis That's the process. My concerns are the political motivations. You can say DEA is just some "typists" following direction of doctors, but that's politically naive. Here's a quote from the director of the American Academy of Pain Management:"Despite the efforts of the Academy’s policy and advocacy staff to suggest less restrictive alternative strategies to reduce misuse, abuse, and diversion of HCCP, rescheduling is soon to be a reality. While we remain concerned about the potential implications of this change for patients’ access to HCCP, we hope that pain management clinicians will find ways to accommodate patients’ needs with minimal disruption. Please inform us if you encounter unanticipated problems, or if you have suggestions for practices that you have found helpful in responding to the change in scheduling. And, as always, thank you for being a member of the Academy, the nation’s premier organization for all clinicians who provide pain care." Our total drug policy in USA is derived from the global war on drugs, devised and directed by the USA. in that realm, no one is concerned about health matters of sick people. No one. The little people at the bottom of all that heap of policing are always the losers, just like this time. From prison terms to pain patients, none of this war on drugs that is about health or helping people. That's never the motivation of these laws and regulations. If health was of interest BOOZE and CIGARETTES would be the targets. Doesn't take a genius. There is an old expression that people can not comprehend the meaning of a forest when they are counting branches on a tree. I'm way too stupid to argue the inner detail of government rule making processes with you that are filled with legal jargon. But not so stupid that I don't understand what motivates kings, crooks, moneymen, and power mongers in any society. Just because the weak are powerless doesn't mean they can be fooled by legal snowjobs. Why? Because we can all see the forest no matter how many trees put up. My doc is extremely wise and experienced and not a politician. She explained the great financial pressure through Medicare that is always a federal hammer. This is far more involved than is being represented here. Thanks for the discussion. Note: dictated to, and typed by Jessica for Joe. It is all politics, but not necessarily elected officials. It is all about money, even if it is only to increase the size of one's own agency. They took a vote, 19 to 10, that sounds pretty political to me. Even so, it was pretty transparent. You would think the doctors would be all for it, reclassification, they get you in twice as often. But about a quarter of hydrocodone scripts are written by GP, family practice doctors, I could see them being against it big time. I don't understand why the pharmacists' association took a neutral position, I would think that there would be more money in it for them, but maybe it is more paperwork and money they can't be paid for. The good news is you apparently have good doctors and you are able to get what you need. Unfortunately my friend Joe's wife could not, and I am really pissed off about that. Travis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It took me three tries before finding a pain management center that treated me like a hurting human being and not a seeking drug addict. The first clinic I was sent to was a Suboxone Clinic for Heroin addicts. I appreciate and respect anyone trying to get off of that stuff, but I don't appreciate showing up for a appointment and finding that I have to wait two hours to see a doctor. The waiting room was packed with foul smelling folk, and I could have sworn that none of them had bathed in a month. When I finally got in, I had to tell my life story, with my forwarded records (which included the doctor's notes from the GP that had taken care of me for thirty years) on the table, along with my CT scan on the PC in front of him. After a strained and awkward silence at the end of the appointment, I stated that I wouldn't be coming back. I said that I didn't have the time to wait that so long to be seen, and that a person with my condition shouldn't be expected to stand indefinitely until a place to sit becomes available in the waiting room. He was really nice about it and said he understood, wrote my script, and I left. When I got in the car, I called my doctor's office and told them how disappointed I was with the referral. We would try again they said ... The following month found me at a small clinic less than 10 minutes away from my house, cool. I was told by my GP that I would really like this doctor. I wouldn't know, because we never met. The morning started out with the clipboard, and I lost count of how many times I was referred to as "honey" and "sweetheart" by the receptionist. As I was getting ready to go into the restroom to do my urine test, an older gentleman exited and announced that the toilet was clogged and overflowing. It was truly disgusting, and the receptionist informed me, "Go ahead hon, it's okay". Uh, no it's not. I handed the urine cup to her and said, "I don't think this is going to work out, sorry". The third time really is the charm. The next place was just awesome, and everything was done right there: physical therapy, injections, evaluations, and of course, the prescription. This referral came through my sister! What I learned is that these places are just like other places; they are for profit, and you don't have to give them your business if you don't want to -- they should earn your business. I would "shop" them just like anything else. If they treat you like "a seeker", I would just leave. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I've been afraid to ask, because I don't want to bring out any pain, but I'm really curious - what happened with your wife Joe, from the caregiving end of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Cranky, good story,tho sad to here bout you're trouble with sleezy places. Makes me lucky. I go to a large university system which is A1+ first class modern +clean, and doc is wonderful. No issues for years until feds get into medicine where they do not belong. Govermint taking over medicine is a long term danger to everyone. Most people are unaffected because they are healthy. Just wait till they get old and become ill. They will get the shock of their life to no that pols and cops and lawyers are in charge of health. Creepingdestruction.I have the highest respect fr docs and nurses... Good luck in your future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 They will get the shock of their life to no that pols and cops and lawyers are in charge of health. I hear much of the rest of your arguments as to the system becoming a worse PITA for people who legitimately need to navigate it. I understand your point and believe it has validity. However, blaming politicians, cops and lawyers because they are not doctors is a bit off the mark. If you let doctors write the laws and police the system, what do you think they would do differently? Let it all go willy-nilly? Anything goes? Or will they have rules? If they have rules, what kind would they be? What would they do to police all the unscrupulous doctors out there who are in it for nothing more than money and actually do disservices to the patients? Or is it your belief there are not enough unscrupulous doctors out there to worry over or do anything about? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 They have to strike a healthy balance somehow -- putting doctors in the position of being afraid to properly treat a patient for fear of losing their licenses isn't it. To make matters worse, the urine testing forces doctors into the law enforcement arena, since they have to inform LE after multiple clean urine tests to cover their back sides. Considering the sheer amount of stuff that's on the street, why are they looking at doctors and patients - shouldn't they be looking at the manufacturers of these pills? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Considering the sheer amount of stuff that's on the street, why are they looking at doctors and patients Because a lot of street pills are generated by this connection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 They will get the shock of their life to no that pols and cops and lawyers are in charge of health. I hear much of the rest of your arguments as to the system becoming a worse PITA for people who legitimately need to navigate it. I understand your point and believe it has validity. However, blaming politicians, cops and lawyers because they are not doctors is a bit off the mark. If you let doctors write the laws and police the system, what do you think they would do differently? Let it all go willy-nilly? Anything goes? Or will they have rules? If they have rules, what kind would they be? What would they do to police all the unscrupulous doctors out there who are in it for nothing more than money and actually do disservices to the patients? Or is it your belief there are not enough unscrupulous doctors out there to worry over or do anything about? i believe to always begin with the biggest problem first, not the flea on the elephant. whenevr you see grosly inverted priorities in a society....look under rugs for corruption, power, moneymaking, the new opiate laws will not stop crimnals from doing what they want to do. pure joke. It will add hassle to small people, who can't fight gigantic sysem corruption. the polticians lawyers cops care nothing about suich little people...grind them into dust who cares?. at least doctors and nurses have ethics of caring to humanity. the others? all power and money only. LOL!!! power never changes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Note: dictated to, and typed by Jessica for Joe. Dang, Jessica! You must be really nice to do all that for Joe. Welcome to the land of the crazies. LOL!!! my super brainy neighber looks in on me....got intersted in all myu typing....what's all this??? LOL!! she is hiop and smart as whips... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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