billybob Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Haven't looked lately but, how much for a similar retail with same or similar specs. 18 inch ported, near 1000 watts sub cost? That was what really grabbed me is the price. Maybe we can get a review sometime. Elsewhere people were saying this is the same driver that has 5" of xMech, which I find hard to believe given the size of the box, but if true, you could barely buy a sub of that caliber plus an amp and the raw wood to build the box for that kind of money. If it is on par with a single HT-18 and maybe a weak version of an iNuke 3000 though which I suspect, you're probably looking at about $500 worth of parts and major material if bought retail. Of course people are buying very inferior subs for twice that with a smile on their face too. Do not know their mission, or if public their mission statement, as a company. Speculating on a possible strategy since I have not done the work, introduction of a sub, that may come in at a lower price point than their target competitors, if any. Maybe a flash in the pan or, a well funded company, just trying to serve a niche market. But I see other products. Last I thought I knew, 4 of 5 new business fail. Klipsch, I would think, but do not know, are probably well aware of their neighborhood. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 18" with 900 watts and 3" xmax.... My guess is it could literally rip your heart out of your chest... Would that be covered in govt health care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K5SS Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) I think the gamma 15 is going to be my next sub. HSU also just released a new version of their sealed 15" that also looks very promising. I love these decisions! Edited July 26, 2015 by K5SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 That new hsu sounds cool too. I'm a big fan of bad boy sealed subs. Ported can be fun but if I got the room for multiple sealed that's where it's at for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Looks great for those considering new 18's. The past 3-4 months I've been looking at 15's. What are your thoughts on: HSU VTF-15H MK2 (RMS 2000w peak / 600w Cont. / 16Hz-200Hz) The HSU has been out of stock most of the summer, but they are back in stock again. WIth shipping, I can grab a pair of the HSU's for about $700-$750 less than the Reaction Echo. My Velo is sealed (had it for about 13-14 years) it was killer for its time. But lot of advancements since then, looking to try out a ported option. My Velo has always been tight & had a nice LFE you could "feel" in the MLP. Curious to hear a ported sub with my HT. Not looking for louder, still want a nice, crisp tight, punch that digs deep without getting muddy. HSU does have the new sealed HSU ULS-15 MK2 coming soon. Either 15" option would work great for my space. Seems like the (ported) VTF would be flexible, but the (sealed) ULS seems great too, as it shares a lot of the components of the ported brother (RMS 2000w peak / 600w Cont. / 20Hz-200Hz) Edited July 27, 2015 by Nismo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 HSU makes great products and had wonderful customer support as well. Dr Hsu is relatively available for questions which is a nice touch too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) HSU makes great products and had wonderful customer support as well. Dr Hsu is relatively available for questions which is a nice touch too. I've only owned 4 different subs over the years & all have been sealed. Not really using them for music per say, primarily HT. Sealed might be what I prefer over Ported. Even with my 12's, when watching movies, friends will ask if I have shakers/transducers? No. You can "feel" my Velo in your gut, but never gets muddy or distorted. I had my (budget friendly) Polk in my computer room & when I added an AVR that had dual pre-outs... I brought my Polk in the HT to try out. It never left the space. It might not dig as deep or be as tight as my Velo, but (despite LFE being omni-directional) the addition of the Polk really added to the right side of the room. It probably acts more like the addition of a mid-range sub, but still fills in the room nicely (I would definitely miss it if it wasn't there). For example in The Matrix, when Neo has the Gatling Gun firing from left to right... the Polk picks up where he is pointing the gun on the right. The left side of my space has my much stronger Velo, and the Velo positioning (has more physical space on the floor) so it naturally benefits accordingly. Dr. HSU has my interest though. Edited July 27, 2015 by Nismo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prerich Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) One of our Bluray.com members has a Reaction Audio HT!!! He uses it 50/50 for music and movies. He owned JTR's before that (100% HT). After he put the Reaction's in - he has went from 80/20% to 50/50% music and movies! There are a couple of others over there that have Reaction Audio based systems as well. He has 3 CX-15T's for the front stage and CX-10's in the rear. I would love to see these face off against the Corns or the Khorns. From the specs, they seem more like competitors for the Cornwalls, as the Khorns kill them in sensitivity! The Belles and La Scalas also have higher sensitivity (CX-15T's are at 99db) - but like the Cornwalls they extend way lower than the Belles and LS's (they have an in-room extention to 29hz). Cornwalls (with ALK Universals) vs the CX-15T would be a nice fight indeed!!!! Edited August 6, 2015 by prerich 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Your room should dictate which type of sub to use. Also how many you have planned for the room. Large room-vented sub, smaller room-sealed. No such thing as a musical sub, it either produces the lowest octave in your music or it does not. In other words, vented subs can be great for music for most people unless you listen to pipe organs. The HSU vented is a nice option. Tell us more about the room and if you have any desire to do more than autocalibration. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prerich Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Your room should dictate which type of sub to use. Also how many you have planned for the room. Large room-vented sub, smaller room-sealed. No such thing as a musical sub, it either produces the lowest octave in your music or it does not. In other words, vented subs can be great for music for most people unless you listen to pipe organs. The HSU vented is a nice option. Tell us more about the room and if you have any desire to do more than autocalibration. I agree with you here, I actually use a combination of ported and sealed subs in my room (swarm technique). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 No such thing as a musical sub, it either produces the lowest octave in your music or it does not. I don't agree with this statement. Maybe there is another term for what it represents but try comparing an older Velodyne 15 (or just about any older, underpowered large sub) with a Klipsch RSW-15 and you will notice an extreme difference in accuracy, tightness and "speed" (another term often dismissed.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I don't agree with this statement. Maybe there is another term for what it represents but try comparing an older Velodyne 15 (or just about any older, underpowered large sub) with a Klipsch RSW-15 and you will notice an extreme difference in accuracy, tightness and "speed" (another term often dismissed.) These are setup related issues including the room. you can mention trasient response for vented subs but, they are more linear down to tunning. Find one manufacture that states he sells musical subs. Larger subs have larger motors and magnet structure and don't need to move as much. Tightness sub be equal if setup right. Now, picking a sub appropite for the mains is a good argument. I would not run RF 52's with my subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prerich Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 No such thing as a musical sub, it either produces the lowest octave in your music or it does not. I don't agree with this statement. Maybe there is another term for what it represents but try comparing an older Velodyne 15 (or just about any older, underpowered large sub) with a Klipsch RSW-15 and you will notice an extreme difference in accuracy, tightness and "speed" (another term often dismissed.) Depends on which older Velodyne you're talking about. Certain Velodyne subs used servo controls on the woofers. These were Velodyne flagship models back in the day - and some of them I would still put up against modern subs (along with M&K). Subwoofer "speed" and "pacing" have more to do with the room and modal issues than I would say the sub itself (IMHO ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 So is this the same argument that all amplifiers should sound the same? Either they're reproducing the frequencies correctly or they're not? I have had MANY different subwoofers and have compared many head to head, usually in the same room / same exact location by swapping them in and out. So if you say its "room related" shouldn't all subs have the same problems in said room? Why would one sub sound so much different in the same exact spot in a room as another? The Velodyne sub I was referring to was the FSR-15. I actually ran one for almost a year and thought it was great-- until I got my hands on my first RSW-15. Absolutely no comparison, the RSW-15 was like "seeing the light" I just couldn't believe how many sub tones were hidden in the music that I never heard before. One of my favorite songs for testing bass is by The Black Eyed Peas, "Boom Boom Pow." With a "good sub" you can hear maybe 6 variations in the bass tones, with a "Musical" sub, such as the RSW-15 you can hear about 12 and the transitions between each tone with the "speed" of the waves actually slowing and accelerating. If you want to test accuracy of a sub, play a good recording of this song and crank it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) I think subwoofer driver/transducer "speed" and transient response is BS. There's even been tests to prove it is BS. However, I do believe enclosure design and amps can in fact make a sub sound sloppier than others on music. I don't believe that rap is a good indication of this either. Bass drum is the only thing I like to look at, how sharp that attack is. Bass guitar to some extent too, but realistically speaking, all the cool growly sounds coming out of bass guitar tube amps is a product of midbass and midrange, and has MUCH more to do with how well you integrate your mains. If you do this successfully, the bass will sound tight and defined. Same thing with bass drum too, your sharpest attack actually comes out of your tweeters. If you have a large and strong tweeter, you will hear the attack from the beater on the skin come in strong around 4,000 hz. Everything else follows this and the bass sounds tighter, even though what makes it sound that way isn't bass at all. Edited August 6, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Anyone who thinks all subs sound the same hasn't REALLY listened to many different subs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Anyone who thinks all subs sound the same hasn't REALLY listened to many different subs. They do sound different, but everybody always blames it on the transducers and nothing else. How much of that is due to a box and amp that is not sized right, a vent that isn't designed right, an internal DSP that is doing some funky stuff, something to do with the room it is in, etc? Anybody who thinks it is all about the driver's transient response needs to read the article below. http://redspade-audio.blogspot.com/2010/10/subwoofer-transient-response.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Anyone who thinks all subs sound the same hasn't REALLY listened to many different subs. They do sound different, but everybody always blames it on the transducers and nothing else. How much of that is due to a box and amp that is not sized right, a vent that isn't designed right, an internal DSP that is doing some funky stuff, something to do with the room it is in, etc? Anybody who thinks it is all about the driver's transient response needs to read the article below. http://redspade-audio.blogspot.com/2010/10/subwoofer-transient-response.html Agreed. There are many factors that shape how a sub ultimately sounds. Transient response is just one of many. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 No, all subs don't sound the same. Most people plop down a sub and compare it to another sub they owned. There is a lot that goes into truly setting up a sub correctly. Many don't have advance DSP/PEQ, ect. It is my opinion, people asking about musical subs are way off in their questioning since the room is 50% of what you hear. I have owned around 15 different subs and use to think along the same lines until I really spent a lot of time with setup and optimization. It is my belife that tight or flabby bass is related to room location, crossover point, listener location, standing waves, reverb, room bass decay, roll-off and room modes for the most part assuming the sub is decent to start with. Sure one sub may sound different in the same spot, two different people still look different in the same spot. The midrange and upper bass provide the tightness and transient response that people are putting completely on the sub. Try several different subs without the other speakers on and you will not notice that much difference. The key is, all the things I listed can be manipulated in the setup process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 It is my belife that tight or flabby bass is related to room location, crossover point, listener location, standing waves, reverb, room bass decay, roll-off and room modes for the most part assuming the sub is decent to start with. And phase. To me, phase (between sub and mains) that is slightly off smears bass more than anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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