Solid state

[tube fanatic]

Chris, I'm distressed that you consider the new tubes section a clique.  That is unfortunate, indeed.  It is open to everyone, including new forum members.  There is no requirement that a person has to like tube amplification or have a minimum number of posts to participate.  If you believe that the threads contain a "great deal of questionable information," please get on there and state your case!  You are as welcome as forum member "wdecho" who likes class A solid state stuff.  I certainly won't argue with you, although I can't speak for others.

Maynard

[Chris A]

I think it's quite clear what you want.

 

Great - that was my objective: a solid state amplifier subforum.  If that is a problem, then let's talk about it.  I don't really understand all this angst for such a simple request. 

 

Chad: could you comment?  Did someone ask someone else to obfuscate?

 

Chris

[Chris A]

If you believe that the threads contain a "great deal of questionable information," please get on there and state your case! You are as welcome as forum member "wdecho" who likes class A solid state stuff. I certainly won't argue with you, although I can't speak for others.

 

Thanks for the welcome, Maynard.  I take at face value your offer.

 

Perhaps there is something that I can contribute there that will benefit new members, or even "wdecho" on that subforum's subjects. This thread, however, is about a solid state amplifier subforum request.

 

Perhaps the term" clique" isn't understood well...Here is the Wikipedia definition that I understand the term to mean:

 

 

In the social sciences, a clique (CanE, UK /ˈkliːk/ or US /ˈklɪk/) is a group of people who interact with each other more regularly and intensely than others in the same setting.^[1] Interacting with cliques is part of normative social development regardless of gender, ethnicity, or popularity. Although cliques are most commonly studied during adolescence and middle childhood, they exist in all age groups.

 

Is that apropos?

 

Chris

[jimjimbo]

Perhaps the term" clique" isn't understood well...Here is the Wikipedia definition that I understand the term to mean:

 

That's pretty funny....completely out of context of course to the original statement, but hey, who am I to argue with Wikipedia.

[Luv_sum_Horns]

Yup, I would like to see a SS section also. I have a lot of this stuff and I'd like to say my Oppo connected XLR to an Anthem Statement A2 sounds wicked good through my 2 ways. And I would love to see what and how others are using their stuff. And who doesn't like photos anyway?

[AllenTacey]

Where do the TUBES go?

 

 

On the back of the unit Sancho there is an area for tubes labeled in caps RECTUM... :-) I see the unit states "The BGW Model 100 is the most advanced dual solid state power amplifier available."? In 1980 Bob Carver released his Magnetic Field Amplifiers. I have not really seen anything that advanced. The M-400 ($800 brand new) weights about 10 pounds packaged in a 10 inch square box. 201 watts per channel with extremely conservative specifications. One switch on the back easily turns the M-400 into a mono amplifier spewing 500 watt into one channel from 1Hz to 250kHz +0/-3 dBs. Being one amp per channel separation does not come to question and who is going to crank up the volume to hear distortion come into question? A damping factor over 150 who needs a tube? David Hafler in 1980 released the DH-200 again a very honest 100 watts per channel using no negative feedback, no measurable distortion, amplifier with a 2.5 dynamic range (mine puts out 200 watts per channel but will do peaks at the rated 250 watts) bridged mono 500 watts per channel easily peaks 1000 watts, no TM when 2-channel and again used mono no TM. This was 1980. So while I love the glow of tubes the glowing transistors in these well designed amps from yesteryear, damn I am old, are not capable of disappointing because they lack tubes. I have found "dime store" Sony's, Pioneer's, Onkyo solid state material to lack sonic quality. Just recently though I found an amplifier at Best Bought that had a preamplifier built into the amplifier 100 watts weighted heavy as it should but how long is the cheap resistors going to hold up. Back in the good old days MOSFET's and JFET"S were expensive low variance resistors. Are today's electronics keeping lasting tolerances? They probably sound no different than an old tube... Yes to a SS Forum! 

Edited August 18, 2015 by AllenTacey

[AllenTacey]

Now explain to me again why we had to have a tube-only amplifier subforum, but when a reasonable and "non-upsetting" request to the admin has been made to also have a solid state amplifier forum--and suddenly it's not okay and he can't be bothered because he's always got better things to do?

 

That appears to be backwards.  Newcomers and visitors already see one subforum without the other.  It does presently appear to me that Voxx is endorsing tube amplifiers only for its Klipsch products.  There are many SS amplifier subjects that need to be discussed for newcomers, ones that I've personally to date not attempted to talk about because the tube guys have historically sniped at those subjects.

 

Now that the shoe is on the other foot--how about a little reciprocity without all the histrionics or egos getting in the way?

 

Chris 

AMEN

[Guest thesloth]

This thread, however, is about a solid state amplifier subforum request.

 

 

[Sancho Panza]

When you get your head out of the RECTUM section :-) you'll realize I posted that question some time ago, before the thread was moved from the Tube Room, where it was meant to be humorous, to this room, where it doesn't make much sense.

Where do the TUBES go?

On the back of the unit Sancho there is an area for tubes labeled in caps RECTUM... :-) I see the unit states "The BGW Model 100 is the most advanced dual solid state power amplifier available."? In 1980 Bob Carver released his Magnetic Field Amplifiers. I have not really seen anything that advanced. The M-400 ($800 brand new) weights about 10 pounds packaged in a 10 inch square box. 201 watts per channel with extremely conservative specifications. One switch on the back easily turns the M-400 into a mono amplifier spewing 500 watt into one channel from 1Hz to 250kHz +0/-3 dBs. Being one amp per channel separation does not come to question and who is going to crank up the volume to hear distortion come into question? A damping factor over 150 who needs a tube? David Hafler in 1980 released the DH-200 again a very honest 100 watts per channel using no negative feedback, no measurable distortion, amplifier with a 2.5 dynamic range (mine puts out 200 watts per channel but will do peaks at the rated 250 watts) bridged mono 500 watts per channel easily peaks 1000 watts, no TM when 2-channel and again used mono no TM. This was 1980. So while I love the glow of tubes the glowing transistors in these well designed amps from yesteryear, damn I am old, are not capable of disappointing because they lack tubes. I have found "dime store" Sony's, Pioneer's, Onkyo solid state material to lack sonic quality. Just recently though I found an amplifier at Best Bought that had a preamplifier built into the amplifier 100 watts weighted heavy as it should but how long is the cheap resistors going to hold up. Back in the good old days MOSFET's and JFET"S were expensive low variance resistors. Are today's electronics keeping lasting tolerances? They probably sound no different than an old tube... Yes to a SS Forum!

Edited August 18, 2015 by Sancho Panza

[Guest thesloth]

You know us tube guys like to do drive by's!!!!!!

 

 

[Don Richard]

Current info on amplifier survey:

 

40% SS

 

13.33% Tube

 

46.67% Both

 

It appears that 86.67% of the people who took the survey have at least 1 solid state amplifier in their system.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Don Richard

[djk]

" In 1980 Bob Carver released his Magnetic Field Amplifiers. I have not really seen anything that advanced. "

 

You don't get out much?

 

"The M-400 ($800 brand new) weights about 10 pounds packaged in a 10 inch square box."

 

It was a 6-3/4" cube, and they were $400 when they first came out in 1980.

 

 "One switch on the back easily turns the M-400 into a mono amplifier"

 

Early units had no mono switch, one channel was out-of-phase so you paralleled the inputs and connected the speaker to the appropriate spring clips. 

 

A very anemic sounding 200W amp and the first sample I had blew up in the store. Later we sold the M1.0T, that may have been their best model.

 

"David Hafler in 1980 released the DH-200 again a very honest 100 watts per channel using no negative feedback, no measurable distortion, amplifier with a 2.5 dynamic range (mine puts out 200 watts per channel but will do peaks at the rated 250 watts) bridged mono 500 watts per channel easily peaks 1000 watts, no TM when 2-channel and again used mono no TM. This was 1980."

 

You're dreaming again. The DH200/220 clips at about 175W/4Ω per channel with both channels driven and 120V line. The design uses plenty of feedback, it would have horrible distortion without it. Lateral FETs have about 20dB more distortion open loop (unless run class A) than a bipolar amplifier, I had no problem measuring the distortion with a Soundtech 1700. On the other hand, Motorola outputs had only 0.5% distortion in class B open loop, less than 0.05% if you matched them. Threshold used Motorola devices with no global feedback, and they sounded quite a bit better than the Hafler.

 

"how long is the cheap resistors going to hold up."

 

They last at least 20 years before the copperweld leads go through a plating failure, unless you own a Carver or Hafler, they fail earlier as both companies bought NOS parts that they got cheap because of their age.

 

 "Back in the good old days MOSFET's and JFET"S were expensive low variance resistors. Are today's electronics keeping lasting tolerances? "

 

Gibberish?

[tube fanatic]

 

  You are as welcome as forum member "wdecho" who likes class A solid state stuff.  

Maynard

Thanks, 

 

I am in the process of getting all the parts together to build a Class A SET. I have never owned a tube amplifier but have always heard that the SET is the best sounding of all amplifiers if the low watt output can be used with your speakers. I am proud to own Klipsch.

 

Congrats!  How about starting a thread "on the other side of the fence" about the amp you are going to build, tubes you chose and why, etc.?  There are many who would enjoy following your adventure!

 

Maynard

[Chris A]

...and many more that would enjoy a subforum on solid state amplifiers for talking about the development of newer architectures using newer solid state devices that have outstanding sub-watt performance--such as Nelson Pass's First Watt amplifiers, and other newer developments. 

[minermark]

I have got spoiled on running used SS on Bass, bigger/badder the better.

Cheap, sound good, disposable.

But im a big time Bi-Amp guy for the last few years, will never go back to anything less.

Advantage i noticed right from the GetGo, and worth stating, you simply do not need to drive your system hard, 1/4 Volume brings me the pizzed neighbor.

in fact im currently running a QSC 1700 w/fans, fans only came on one time in the last two years, Due to Mancave temp being 90+.

[Ski Bum]

If anything, Chris, there seems to be a lot of overlap with the First Watt amps and the single ended tube amps.  First Watt amps actually don't tout textbook perfect performance, nor are they devoid of deliberate voicing.  And they don't bring much power.  They appeal to the same audience as SET amps do.  Some of the old First Watt threads involved lots of comparisons to tubes, and rightly so.  First Watt amps seem more of an ode to engineering elegance and simplicity (along with the compromises and limitations that accompany such an approach).  First Watt are aimed squarely at the curious and exploratory DIY audience.

 

It would make sense to my crazy point of view that the tubes forum and possible ss forum were both sub-forums within the technical forum.  The onus would then be on all participants to be as objective about their subjectivity as possible, giving any newbs or technically naive readers practically useful information for their audio journey.  It seems that Maynard and Sloth are doing just that over in the tube forum. 

[Chris A]

I wish that everyone on the forum were as fair, reasonable, courteous, willing to share ideas, willing to suspend disbelief, and open to new ideas as you are.  If everyone here were like you, this would indeed be a great place to put forth new ideas and concepts.  In short, you're a gentleman. 

 

As far as what you say, above--it makes a great deal of sense--to me, at least--and I like and support the idea. 

 

It may, in fact, make too much sense.  I hope not.

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Chris

[Chad]

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/forum/110-solid-state/