Dprice18af Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I don't play at reference levels. If it were the avr, wouldn't my rf82 and s10 tweeters also be blown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaman Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I entrust very few receivers to keep from clipping. Power ratings and distortion in many receivers will send your tweeters packing in a hurry. I clipped 200 watt rms speakers with a 35 wpc receiver turned up 1/3 of the way. Sometimes it is the source material recording that clips it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 In the audio world, to much power has always been viewed by many to be better than under powering a speaker. The support guy who answers these calls likes to perfectly match up RMS output on the speakers vs. amp. Notice the RC-62ii takes 150 watts RMS. So, he wants you to have a 150 watt receiver. 140 is no good. The problem with this approach is that such a receiver that is seemingly appropriate would drop to closer to like 1/3 of that with all channels driven, so here we go again. The only way this approach would be accurate is if people always had external amps on every speaker. If you're clipping with a 120 watt receiver you're going to clip with a typical 150 watt one, the exception probably being some of the nicer Denon's or older Yamaha's who have very beefy internals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dprice18af Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I'm playing with the idea of getting a new AVR. I just feel that Kilpsch Support is feeding me a bunch of bull. I bet most of the folks that are buying Reference line speakers are using AVR's similar, or slightly better then mine. Wouldn't Klipsch be receiving a huge volume of complaints/warranty requests if this were true. Also, you would think that they would put a warning message in big red letters in all of their product manuals, as well as their product pages as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuy Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I guess it depends on how loud you play program materials. I just bought a New AVR for my small size room and have more power than I'll use. 1 to 10 watts of good clean power can get a Klipsch pretty loud. Sure the power goes up as the recorded program increases in volume and intensity but we're are talking about High Sensitivity Speakers. High Power is always best because those Amps usually have more headroom than lower wattage units--thus will make your speakers sound better-- even at lower volume. When I bought my new AVR--I skipped features and went for the sound of the unit that I didn't get from my Yamaha. I have master decoding for dolby formats and that stuff but no equaliizers or room correction calibrations. Just bass and treble tone controls--but the amps sound so good I don't need that other stuff at this time. If you hooked up "Power Meters"--you'd probably be surprised at low little power you use. Everyone tosses out Big Numbers to impress when trying to sell you a AVR--go for quality over quanity. Dynamic amps with good headroom sound best with Klipsch Speakers and an equalizer cannot fix that on a dull flat AVR. Just my opinion--Your mileage may vary--30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dprice18af Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I guess it depends on how loud you play program materials. I just bought a New AVR for my small size room and have more power than I'll use. 1 to 10 watts of good clean power can get a Klipsch pretty loud. Sure the power goes up as the recorded program increases in volume and intensity but we're are talking about High Sensitivity Speakers. High Power is always best because those Amps usually have more headroom than lower wattage units--thus will make your speakers sound better-- even at lower volume. When I bought my new AVR--I skipped features and went for the sound of the unit that I didn't get from my Yamaha. I have master decoding for dolby formats and that stuff but no equaliizers or room correction calibrations. Just bass and treble tone controls--but the amps sound so good I don't need that other stuff at this time. If you hooked up "Power Meters"--you'd probably be surprised at low little power you use. Everyone tosses out Big Numbers to impress when trying to sell you a AVR--go for quality over quanity. Dynamic amps with good headroom sound best with Klipsch Speakers and an equalizer cannot fix that on a dull flat AVR. Just my opinion--Your mileage may vary--30 What model of AVR are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuy Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I bought a Harman Kardon AVR Model 1565 new on Amazon. it is New but it is 4 Years Old. It is Not real Fancy like todays AVR's The Menu for sound Processing is Outdated and Not Slick like today's AVR's It is Pretty Simple to use. It's pretty much like a dinosaur compared to today's units. It has Master Dolby decoding and stuff but NOT ATMOS. But I didn't buy it for that. I just happen to like the sound of H-K amps. It's Dynamic and punchy--whatever that means--it sounds great. I have a Yamaha--sitting in it's Box--for sale--in the other room that is a more Fancy AVR with More Power-- it has all kinds of built in stuff--equalizers and a More Fancy On Screen Menu-- and is a 7.1 channel where the H-K is only 5.1 But in the sound dept. the H-K wins--Hands Down with my Klipsch It's not the "NEW" H-K stuff--these are the older amps--not the New "Green Amps" H-K currently has on the market. I'm sure people here can give you better advice than I can give about newer AVR's that are Fancy. I got mine for under $300 and could not be more pleased but I gave up some of the features of more modern AVR's because I like the H-K sound. Hope this helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I bought a Harman Kardon AVR Model 1565 new on Amazon. it is New but it is 4 Years Old. It is Not real Fancy like todays AVR's The Menu for sound Processing is Outdated and Not Slick like today's AVR's It is Pretty Simple to use. It's pretty much like a dinosaur compared to today's units. It has Master Dolby decoding and stuff but NOT ATMOS. But I didn't buy it for that. I just happen to like the sound of H-K amps. It's Dynamic and punchy--whatever that means--it sounds great. I have a Yamaha--sitting in it's Box--for sale--in the other room that is a more Fancy AVR with More Power-- it has all kinds of built in stuff--equalizers and a More Fancy On Screen Menu-- and is a 7.1 channel where the H-K is only 5.1 But in the sound dept. the H-K wins--Hands Down with my Klipsch It's not the "NEW" H-K stuff--these are the older amps--not the New "Green Amps" H-K currently has on the market. I'm sure people here can give you better advice than I can give about newer AVR's that are Fancy. I got mine for under $300 and could not be more pleased but I gave up some of the features of more modern AVR's because I like the H-K sound. Hope this helps. Awesome…..it's good to be happy with a purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertester Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 I have the exact same issue . Moved from a Cerwin Vega to a Klipsch RC62-II center speaker and it sound horrible. I have an old workhorse Onkyo TX-NR515 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bala Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 On 11/28/2019 at 2:07 AM, supertester said: I have the exact same issue . Moved from a Cerwin Vega to a Klipsch RC62-II center speaker and it sound horrible. I have an old workhorse Onkyo TX-NR515 Home Theater The Klipsch Audio Community Boxy sounding center channel? By tubetwister, April 8, 2018 in Home Theater Reply to this topic PREV 2 NEXT Page 2 of 2 analogman 19 Posted April 9, 2018 I don't think anything Klipsch is going to mate well with anything VMPS I live in Concord, CA and visited VMPS many times before they closed their doors ; - (, so I know their sound well Had a friend in Clayton who kept all the big models in constant rotation in a room about the size of a glove compartment! It's not that there is anything wrong about the Klipsch, but the voicing differences between how a Klipsch product "presents" and anything VMPS is GINORMOUS I don't think it'll ever sound "right" in the middle of two VMPS towers - it is a cardboard box when compared to the former as for balls Quote wvu80 6585 Posted April 9, 2018 On 4/9/2018 at 9:55 PM, analogman said: It's not that there is anything wrong about the Klipsch, but the voicing differences between how a Klipsch product "presents" and anything VMPS is GINORMOUS I don't think it'll ever sound "right" in the middle of two VMPS towers - it is a cardboard box when compared to the former as for balls You have a unique perspective since I don't think many of us have ever heard the VMPS towers. Sometimes the simple answer is the most correct, although I'm hoping the new Integra gives the OP some options that might help him integrate the RC-64 into his existing setup. +++ On 4/9/2018 at 9:55 PM, analogman said: I live in Concord, CA and...(snip!) Home of some of the best jazz in America and the home of one of my favorite drum corps, the Blue Devils. Are you a fan? Quote tubetwister 78 Posted April 9, 2018 Klipsch with VMPS? Well, I will have to argue that...for now. In some movie scenes (loud / noisy / gunshots) they all play together nicely. The spoken dialog in the center does "project" more from the RC-64 II. I will wait until the new Integra arrives, then do all of the tweaking and see what we end up with. The soundstage all across the front when playing a recorded concert is stunning! The speakers blend together nicely, even though they are night and day different. Being a trumpet player (Maynard is my hero), music comes first, everything else is second. The RC-64 has good bass impact, so much that it was a surprise. But nothing can rival the VMPS RM 2's for sheer musicality, and top to bottom response. My first exposure to Altec-Lansing was with their "Voice of the Theater" speakers, with that huge 18" sectoral horn, and the massive 15" woofer. Those made a believer out of me, and everyone else who listened. A trumpet was playing behind me, but it was the Altec! Fast forward to today, and I was made a believer in Klipsch when my wife and I listened to the 1812 Overture on a pair of RB-81 II's. The bells near the end were ringing, and my wife and I closed our eyes, and were instantly transported to the inside of an 18th century cathedral, where the bells were ringing. It was that real! Edited April 10, 2018 by tubetwister Quote wvu80 6585 Posted April 10, 2018 On 4/9/2018 at 10:59 PM, tubetwister said: Klipsch with VMPS? Well, I will have to argue that...for now. In some movie scenes (loud / noisy / gunshots) they all play together nicely. The spoken dialog in the center does "project" more from the RC-64 II. I will wait until the new Integra arrives, then do all of the tweaking and see what we end up with. The soundstage all across the front when playing a recorded concert is stunning! The speakers blend together nicely, even though they are night and day different. Being a trumpet player (Maynard is my hero), music comes first, everything else is second. It takes horns to play horns! Because I am also a huge fan of brass in jazz, orchestra and drum corps I can assure you the RC-64 is outstanding when it comes to accurate horn reproduction. I heard Maynard a couple of times live, although he was a bit past his prime. The best horn show I ever heard live was Doc Severenson. The best trumpet player I ever heard was Maurice Andre, who gave the single best performance I've ever heard in my life. Quote The RC-64 has good bass impact, so much that it was a surprise. But nothing can rival the VMPS RM 2's for sheer musicality, and top to bottom response. Getting back to the RC-64 boxy sound problem, I was able to by-pass my electronics and I think I have some answers. Maybe observations are more accurate. I ran the Marantz 6011 in Pure Direct mode, my Signal in was Dolby Digital from the Cable TV box which featured some dramatic music from the X-Files but mostly dialog from the center. The Center XO was 60 Hz. In Direct Mode the sound almost instantly went from rich and full to very little dynamics, a very dull sound at low to medium SPL. I could make the RC-64 come alive but I had to crank the sound up to near Reference levels at maybe 75-80 db. Especially at lower listening levels the Dynamic EQ and the Dynamic Volume produced a rich full sound at low to mid level listening levels. I don't know if I ever heard a "boxy" sound but the RC-64 was very unimpressive at lower listening levels in Direct mode. With the sound enhancements enabled (even All Channel Stereo) the RC-64 is as good as I've ever heard. And when I cranked it up, either in Dolby Digital or Pure Direct there did not seem to be any limit to the good quality sound. It never topped out or sound compressed even at Reference levels. @tubetwister because of the different types of speakers you will be using if it doesn't sound good right away with the Integra, I suggest you experiment with raising the SPL of the RC-64. I can control that with the Marantz using Dialog Enhancement, which does nothing more than allow you to raise the Db to the center by 3, 6, 12, and 18 db. FYI I had mine set to 0 db for all my listening tests described above. In honor of your preference for brass: Quote tubetwister 78 Posted April 10, 2018 Thanks for the video! Cool, and they can sing too. Most musicians can sing simply because they have good ears for correctly being in tune. I selected the Dynamic Compression feature in my Blu-Ray player, an older Panasonic. It seems to help. The bottom octave, maybe below 100 hz, could still be tweaked a bit. But sounding much better than before. My NAD is firing all speakers in the 9.2 setup...just does not respond to remote control inputs anymore. Thus the Integra will be here Thursday. I'm tempted to install my 10 band EQ (Dynaco SE-10, kit built) on the center and play with it. I'd bet it could be cleaned up with just a little effort. During the white/pink noise level testing, the difference between the RC-64 II and the VMPS's was noticeable, but not in a bad way. The Klipsch was just a bit more forward in presence. Both the side and rear surrounds are RB 81 /61. Awesome sound!!! I like the 81's so well that it is a waste not having them as the L & R speakers. I saw Maynard several times, when he was in his prime. Saw Doc, Bill Chase, and recently saw Wayne Bergeron. Wayne is the #1 go to trumpet player in the country. ABC payed him $10,000 to do a special for them. One nights work! Watch and listen to Wayne Bergeron "Oh Holy Night". It will make your eyes water. Wayne toured with Maynard. 1 Quote wvu80 6585 Posted April 10, 2018 On 4/10/2018 at 6:43 AM, tubetwister said: I saw Maynard several times, when he was in his prime. Saw Doc, Bill Chase, and recently saw Wayne Bergeron. Wayne is the #1 go to trumpet player in the country. ABC payed him $10,000 to do a special for them. One nights work! Watch and listen to Wayne Bergeron "Oh Holy Night". It will make your eyes water. Wayne toured with Maynard. You saw Bill Chase? Wow! About the time I discovered him he had just died in a plane wreck in 1974. I used to listen to Chase (Chase) on the 8-track player in my van. He also played with Maynard. As for Wayne Bergeron I didn't know he toured with Maynard. I've known Wayne's work for a while, in particular for his work on The Incredibles. His bio said he helped to design the Yamaha YTR 8335LA. I had bought a YTR 8345 (reverse lead pipe) for my son who was in HS at the time. For the record, I am not a musician, I am a dumb drummer with a love for big hornlines. The big horn sound is why I got into Klipsch speakers, nothing does horns better than the large live sound that Klipsch can provide. Thanks for the Youtube vid of Wayne Bergeron. I had not heard that one before, thanks! Quote rebuy 679 Posted April 10, 2018 I'm gonna behave, I'm gonna behave.... Quote tubetwister 78 Posted April 14, 2018 After enabling the dynamic compression setting on the Blu-ray player, it helped with the male voice boominess. The speaker(RC 64 II) is awesome, very dynamic with huge impact. We will do some serious EQ in hopes of getting everything where we want it to be. Quote a.quvist 0 Posted April 30, 2018 On a side note here, has anyone tried swapping out the stock foam inside the RC64II vs polyfill? Could the stock foam be open cell foam or just there to take up volume? Quote Bala 1 Posted 15 hours ago Hi, I am electrical engineer, so know something on frequency, crossover, response etc. Not an audiophile, but assume I have good ears. I undergo audiometry tests regularly for official purpose. I also have the habit of reading the posts on speakers which my family hates… knowingly that I will not buy anything new. I had KEF LS50, R200c, wharfedale diamond subwoofer home theater along with Klipsch RF62II, RC62II (changed from RC52II to RC62II), RS42II and SW112 subwoofer (crazy…). I gave the KEF setup to my friend as over the period of time I found the Klipsch was more suited for home theater with bigger fronts and center and of course horns, higher efficiency for the impact. I found KEF LS50 was not satisfactory for home theater. R200C vocals was good or even sometimes better, but was with less bass (tiny) compared Klipsch RC62II. I do see these comments on the Klipsch RC62II that it is boxy, or tin-can sounding, or vocals not clear which I also experienced. Especially this was true for some male voices. So, I wanted to share my experience thinking it may also workout for others and eventually useful. In fact, I have taken RC62II to near by Hifi shops having theater and there when connected blow everybody including the seller who is dealing with speakers day in day out. I also understand RC62II is not the limit but you may need to go for much larger size which do not fit in living rooms. I saw the frequency response of RC62ii measured by sound and vision. I observed that it has dip (-3db) at 2kHz crossover region and bump (+3db) at highs. So, with AVR (Onkyo TXNR 929) I did the following after running Audyseey for center channel. 1) XO at 120HZ to remove lower frequencies (still some go to center at 12db/octave) and diverted to subwoofer, other speakers set at 100Hz, LPF for LFE at 120Hz. 2) In Manual Equalizer, I changed 63Hz at -6db, 2.5kHz at +2db, 16kHz at -2 db. Rest all at 0db. 3) Speaker levels for all speakers set at same level (no bumping for center). 4) AVR played with Audyssey OFF, Dynamic Eq ON, Manual Eq ON. 5) Remove the grill while watching as these are very thick. With the above changes, I find the vocals have improved dramatically (very intelligent now) and also no more boxy sounding. Sound stage is a bit wider too. Further tweaking may or may not make it better, but decided that it’s enough. I find that, by little tweaking we may be able to make the satisfactory outcomes. So worth trying based on individual circumstances. Also, I don’t see point in changing the speakers without trying these. I thought this may be helpful for others (similar exercise may work out for other brands and models also), so have posted this. Good Luck. 1 Quote Edit PREV 2 NEXT Page 2 of 2 Reply to this topic... Follow0 GO TO TOPIC LISTING NEXT UNREAD TOPIC Theme Privacy Policy Copyright (DMCA) Policy Copyright © 2019 Klipsch Group, Inc.Powered by Invision Community Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK Thom Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Very strange, I have been using a RC 62 for years and it sounds great and neutral. So neutral in fact it works with my Ohm Walsh fronts. Sounds like an amp/reciever issue to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balas Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 (edited) Hi, My system is RF62II, RC62II, RS42II, SW112, Onkyo TXNR 929, Marantz PM 8005, Marantz CD Player 6005. I also experienced similar issue. Especially this was true for some male voices. I don't know exact reason, but strongly believe it is due cabinet resonances, floor reflections, subwoofer integration. Seeing frequency response, with AVR (Onkyo TXNR 929) I did the following after running Audyssey. Initially, 1) XO at 100HZ to remove lower frequencies (still some go to center at 12db/octave) and diverted to subwoofer, other speakers set at 100Hz, LPF for LFE at 80Hz, Subwoofer knob at 80 Hz (was not worried about hole between 120 to 80Hz) to get non-directional sound from subwoofer. I find anything above 80Hz becomes directional and doesn't integrate with mains properly, unless it is placed next to mains. 2) In Manual Equalizer, I changed 63Hz at -6db, 2.5kHz at +2db, 16kHz at -2 db. Rest all at 0db. This is for all the speakers. I found changing 63Hz near to 0 db in manual equalizer makes sound muddy (think due to subwoofer integration) even if sub volume turned down hence reduced to -6db. I find the +6db boost given during calibration for subwoofer (75 db for sub and 69 db for mains) evens out -6db for 63Hz set in manual equalizer and gives flat response for the frequencies intended for mains. Alternatively, we can run mains crossed over at 40Hz (and 63Hz at 0 db) but i didn't do because it will tax the mains. 3) Speaker levels for all speakers set at same level (no bumping for center). 4) AVR played with Audyssey OFF, Dynamic Eq ON, Manual Eq ON, Dynamic volume on LIGHT. 5) While watching, remove the grill as these are very thick, lay carpet on the front. 6) Last but not least, have put rubber mat (yoga mat cut to size, thick enough which touches the bottom surface of speaker after placing the speaker) at the bottom. This, I feel has very good dampening for the entire surface than four rubber feet. All these are for my room responses and configurations, but find the above may be useful for others. With the above changes, I find the vocals have improved dramatically (very intelligent now) and also no more sounding boxy and harsh / sibilance at highs. Sound stage is a bit wider too. Further tweaking may or may not make it better, but decided that it’s enough. May be you can with above as starting point, maneuver, and also decrease the crossover to get bigger (cinematic) sound from mains until the tin can sound does not repeat. Eventually, I changed the crossover as 60Hz for center, and 80Hz (Fronts being bigger in size, is now timber matching with this setting for seamless front stage) for Fronts and Surrounds which I found even better. Good Luck. Edited September 12, 2021 by Balas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallsmx3 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 I was having the same issue with my 504c. The only thing that's new in my system is my svs subwoofer which I had set at 120hz LPF. After trying to change xo and recalibrating many times I finally lowered the lpf to 80hz and what a huge difference it made. Obviously voices were coming through the sub causing issues. I also used the tone controls bumped the bass and treble a little. I get meaty sound through the center and 99% of the tin sound is gone! Sent from my KB2007 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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