tube fanatic Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Simple answer- I have no idea! I spent a couple of hours this afternoon listening to SETs, SEPs, and a 70 wpc SS receiver (listening level was approximately 70-72 db with all) trying to figure out the answer to this question. The SETs and SEPs (the latter employing negative feedback to reduce distortion and widen the bandwidth) were very close- the SEPs showed a little advantage in the bottom end, while the SETs showed an unsurpassed realism which gave the illusion of the performers being in the room with me regardless of what I listened to. The SS receiver, in spite of its vanishingly low distortion, and very low output impedance, just didn't cut it. The soundstage had no dimension and seemed "flat" for lack of a better word. There was absolutely no involvement with the music and, with some material, I had no desire to spend any time listening. Maybe it's what Bob Harley described in this short article: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/tas/223/editorial.htm I mention this area of controversy as I ponder what I want to do as my "contribution" to a community designed amp. My goal is to come up with something at modest cost which can be tackled by folks who don't have a huge amount of experience. I'll leave a good push-pull design to Sloth and others! So, share your opinions and talk about why you prefer what you use with your Klipsch speakers. I know there are a fair number of forum members who are using SEPs, SETs, push-pull, ultralinear, OTL and just about every other variation out there. Maynard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thesloth Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 You guys are killing me over here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't have a SET amplifier. All this talk really really makes me want to build one. I feel I am wasting my tubes and power all to just create heat. I listen to music all day at low levels and am running either 10 or 11 tubes at a time. I would like to cut that down to half. All the popular triodes are too expensive for my blood, so I would probably either strap a pentode or tetrode as a triode. I have looked at the 6C33C but they pull a ton of current. I will have to search around for cheap triodes that aren't fashionable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I wouldn't mind taking a stab at building an SET kit designed by you... you know.. for comparison's sake 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 You guys are killing me over here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't have a SET amplifier. All this talk really really makes me want to build one. I feel I am wasting my tubes and power all to just create heat. I listen to music all day at low levels and am running either 10 or 11 tubes at a time. I would like to cut that down to half. All the popular triodes are too expensive for my blood, so I would probably either strap a pentode or tetrode as a triode. I have looked at the 6C33C but they pull a ton of current. I will have to search around for cheap triodes that aren't fashionable. If you listen all day and are concerned with heat and current draw, particularly Heat, I would shy from the 6c33. Along with pumpimg out great sound they pump lots of heat. How about a nice SE using the small EL84. I've heard some killer amps using that tube. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) Deleted redundant post. Edited August 4, 2015 by DizRotus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) If "straight wire with gain" is the target. This $5 chip amp comes close and sounds very good also. Edited August 4, 2015 by DizRotus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Most owners of Klipsch speakers do not realize what they are missing until they try SE class A LOL. Those that have and are musicians are not so easily impressed with coloration. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thesloth Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 If you listen all day and are concerned with heat and current draw, particularly Heat, I would shy from the 6c33. Along with pumpimg out great sound they pump lots of heat. How about a nice SE using the small EL84. I've heard some killer amps using that tube. Yes I saw the 6C33C and heard they were used in fighter jets so I thought that was cool until I read the datasheet and saw how much current the filament draws, 6.6A @ 6.3v Yikes!! Not to mention they probably should be operated around 100mA . Not what I am looking for at the moment. As far as the EL84, I am not sure the 1.5 watt output in triode mode is going to quite cut it for me, the amp will be played through Heresy's. I think I would want 5 watts. I have a SEP using 6L6's in another room with Klipsch RF-82's and it's about perfect for what I want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv_sum_Horns Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Why do SETs sound so good?Has something to do with harmonics. Don't really care for harmonica music so I guess it will remain a mystery to me. -bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 The distortion is pleasing to the ear. Easy answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 It's magic... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Most owners of Klipsch speakers do not realize what they are missing until they try SE class A LOL. Those that have and are musicians are not so easily impressed with coloration. LOL... most musician's systems that I have experienced are of such low quality of reproduction that lack of distortion and coloration must be very low on their priorities. Why do musicians choose one instrument over another...? colorations maybe..??? Is music not composed of many colorations...? Who here believes that there exist the perfect amplifier with no coloration..? Or a combination of componets that have no colorations..? My goal for my system is to reproduce with as close to a feeling of real life musicians and instruments in my listening space which leads to the maximum emotional connection possible to the music for me...!!! I love it when I turn my system on and bring Muddy Waters and many other Bluesman to life once again... and I will use and combine any technology that helps me to obtain this ability even if it's technology based from the 1930s like tubes and horns or current dsp technology from 2015. Those with questioning minds I understand but those with closed minds I will never understand miketn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Those with questioning minds I understand but those with closed minds I will never understand I feel the same way about Chinese food. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) If "straight wire with gain" is the target. This $5 chip amp comes close and sounds very good also. I have not had the same success with chip amps that you have. I have tried several and find them all good but lacking. The solid state amps I think deserve recognition are the offerings from Nelson Pass. The DIY First Watt amps I have heard, built and tweaked are amazing. Dave Edited August 4, 2015 by GotHover 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I mention this area of controversy as I ponder what I want to do as my "contribution" to a community designed amp. My goal is to come up with something at modest cost which can be tackled by folks who don't have a huge amount of experience. I'll leave a good push-pull design to Sloth and others! Very nice. I really don't have anything to add as far as topologies, but I do love a set amp. My favorite and preference is a 300B, plenty of power and great sound. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Spud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinsweber Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I would love to build a 300b/6B4G or 2A3 that used interstage transformers... I want to know that lady in the corner.... she's hot! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinsweber Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Double post... sorry. Edited August 4, 2015 by justinsweber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 Spud Mike raises another possible route. For those who aren't familiar with "spud" amps, they are unquestionably the simplest tube amps you can build. Only one tube per channel! Generally, that tube is the output tube which is directly driven by a high output source such as a CD player. Eliminating a driver tube and its associated parts, coupling cap, and additional solder connections renders the circuit extremely simple. And, if it's designed to run the filaments on DC, the amp should be dead quiet. The only limitations are power output, which probably won't exceed 1 wpc (in my view, that's plenty!), and the need to have a source which can deliver up to around 2V or more. Popular choices have been the 6CL6, 6/35/50EH5, and some others as well. If enough guys are interested in trying something like this I'm willing to prototype something in the fall. If you do a search for "spud amplifier" you will find dozens of very interesting discussions about them. Maynard 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 As someone who has contributed here for many years (in those days using a different handle), it's interesting to observe the revisitng of topics that had been so frequently (and at times quite vigorously) "discussed." The SET vs PP and hollow state vs solid state in general was a path traveled over and over. one contributor referred to interstage coupling, which was yet another area visited. Better still, in my experience, direct-coupling (which helps do away with the dreaded coupling capacitor debate, or a combination of direct and interstage coupling -- about which I also contributed many posts. So, once again for fun! I have built both the 45 and 2a3 versions of Jack Eliano's DRD (Direct Reactance Drive) single ended 300B circuit that was published in Vacuum Tube Valley magazine in.............a long time ago. It is an unusual and extraordinary design, and there have been a host of variations done. I would point out, however, that while this particulalr implementation is fresh and new, important aspects of the circuit were known and used more than a half-century ago. I also built a version of this amplifier using parallel feed output topology. I have written at considerable length about Eliano's so-called "Ultrapath" connection in years past (again under a different avatar -- my name) and don't have nearly the energy I had back then to go over it all again. This circuit will be of interest to some of you. It is a truly fine sounding design (purely subjective of course). Why do SETs sound so good? I would answer that question by pointing out the fact that history on this forum would suggest that to some listeners, SETs not only don't sound good, they sound terrible. It is entirely and absolutely a personal taste sort of thing. The following is one SET topolgy that to me sounded very good indeed. Again, this is ground already very heavily traveled here. For those of you who may not be aware, Jack Eliano is the gentleman behind Electa-Print transformers. http://www.electra-print.com/300bdrd.php 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.