Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted August 29, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted August 29, 2015 Wow, traffic jam. Welcome! I assume those units in front of the Jub bass bins are going somewhere else soon...(?) The typical crossover frequency of Jubs is about 400-450 Hz on the low end, so those bass bins are producing sound almost at a tuning fork (A440) frequency, which is pretty directional. Those boxes (I assume that they're Altec Valencias or something else similar) will cramp your style in front of them. See https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/131163-corner-horn-imaging-faq/ Enjoy! Chris Hmmm...not what the guys at Klipsch recommend to me on the Phone. More like 800hz, even though the web-site says 400hz The Bass bin can easily go up to 1000hz, but I have it set around 800hz as per the experts at Klipsch. ?? Yeah, I do not recommend McIntosh speakers at all. They are on eBay and Craigslist. In front are 1977 McIntosh ML-2M. I now use them just as a table to hold my Vinyl that is spinning. Five way....Six speakers each. 2 12" woofers. Maybe 87db 1watt @ 1 meter on a good day? (If that!) Don't know who you talked to but with a 402 horn in a three way configuration I would always recommend 400hz; 500 hz for a two way with the proper driver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted August 29, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted August 29, 2015 The Bass bin can easily go up to 1000hz, but I have it set around 800hz as per the experts at Klipsch. Talk to Roy (Delgado) - it doesn't get any more expert than that. Anyone telling you it's 800 Hz , I'd like to know their name. The bass bins will surely go to 1200 Hz in terms of on-axis response, but the polars (and corresponding power response) are really, really narrow up there, which doesn't sound very good. That's why everyone that has those jewels cross them at about 425 Hz. per the Klipsch anechoic chamber-derived settings. If you're using the K-510/K-69-A (3-way Jub) on top, you can cross that over at virtually any point above ~2 kHz you want. There are slightly better bass bin settings using a Yamaha SP2060 here: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=106126 Chris uh-huh.... EVERYONE! lol We must all be the same..... I am not listening in an anechoic chamber believe it or not, and YES an expert at Klipsch gave me those recommended settings and I agree with them. Damn coyotee-o finally did; he cloned chief bonehead...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted August 29, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted August 29, 2015 From the website itself http://www.klipsch.com/KPT-Jubilee-535-B/details FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 45Hz-19kHz +/- 3dB-10dB @ 34Hz SENSITIVITY: 105dB HIGH FREQUENCY HORN: KPT-Grand-HF-T MID FREQUENCY HORN: KPT-402-MF WOOFER: KPT-KHJ-LF CROSSOVER FREQUENCY: 400 Hz, 3k Hz 24dB/Octave COVERAGE ANGLE: Horizontal 90(o) +/-20(o) 200Hz-18kHz Vertical 60(o) +/-20(o) 500Hz-19kHz DELAY: LF: 0 ms MF: 2.27 ms HF: 2.81 ms DIMENSIONS: 77.25" (196cm) H x 41.5" (105cm) W x 24.3" (62cm) D WEIGHT: 265 lbs (120 kg) Thank you Capt. Obvious! Already posted that info just above if you were to bother reading. Now be nice..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted August 29, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted August 29, 2015 First Scotty found the forum, im sure he surfed a bit on the forum. Scotty did just exactly what we all did, requested or not, he posted his system. no easy task the way we need to post pics here. His first response is to get Specs thrown at him? What the hell? Hella way to welcome a newbi, but then again it's the "Cult" thinking, shining through in all its glory. Is this the way you people make friends in life ? i want less to do with this forum everyday. I don't think anyone did anything wrong but some people do have a high sensitivity rating. If I had seen his initial posts about the crossover freq I would have suggested a lower one. And might have thrown a few spec sheets in there myself....I keep a couple handy in my pocket. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted August 29, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted August 29, 2015 Yes, you are probably correct that he paid full price. Those are the new style K-510 tweeters and they have not been around very long. I doubt these were bought as a used item. I also agree that we will probably not see him again. He seems to have his mind made up and probably does not want to go through the various issues about choosing a crossover point. 2015 Jubilees, as posted in my first post. You guys are getting the hang of this internet thingy,. Way to go! I don't need you to tell me what sounds good to my ears. Sang in barbershop, sang in world famous choir, played Sax and Guitar....have perfect-pitch. etc etc... I know what I like and I do experiment after researching my stuff. It is set-up just fine and I am done messing around. Time to sit back and enjoy. You are welcome to spend eternity never happy and constantly fiddiling and tweeking your own system until you go blue-mental. Knock yourself out my man! Already predicted a few know-it-alls to come in here and tell me what to do. That is why I first posted the crossover specs that Klipsch has on the web. But, as expected.....some tard went ahead and re-posted them anyways and trying to tell me what I like. Nice! Also, Klipsch engineer that worked with Paul on these speakers absolutely told me to try 800hz for the 2015 Jubilees. OK? Just accept it and move on already! Sheeezh! Ok......I went back over my notes.....worked with paul on the jub.....pulled out time sheets for that time period......and I found nothing to indicate that anyone else worked with paul on the jubs......whew. But that means that we never talked...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Okay, Scotty, now you've attracted some attention. A few of us on here act like we know it all, but Chief bonehead does know it all. Edited August 29, 2015 by Islander 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted August 29, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Okay, Scotty, now you've attracted some attention. A few of us on here act like we know it all, but Chief bonehead does know it all. Wow I have some of you fooled. As paul would say, I am still learning about those pesky waves......I appreciate it though. Edited August 29, 2015 by Chief bonehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty H Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 Spoke with Chris....that works with you. Was he not there when Paul was designing the Jubilees? Tried 500, and 425 crossover points yesterday. ?? Nobody could tell any difference in a blind taste-test. Maybe you see it on paper? My ears did not tell any difference at all. Thanks for the reply Roy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty H Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) As mikebse2a3 pointed out, resistance and impedance are not the same thing, although they use the same value (ohms). Checking the resistance with an ohmmeter will tell you whether you have continuity (no broken wires or connections, for example), but does not show you the impedance of the speaker. The impedance shows what the amplifier is seeing while the speaker is operating in its cabinet or driving its horn. It varies greatly with frequency, so the single impedance number (4 ohm, 8 ohm, whatever) assigned to a speaker is a nominal value, really more of a judgement call than an absolute value. Yes....my test shows approx. 2/3 of what true value is. Close enough to show what ohm output I should be using on my amps. 3.2-3.3 = 4ohm speaker. The tops....measure 12...which calls for 16ohm output. Done! Next topic? lol Requires too much equipment to accurately measure the ohm, but what I did was absolutely good enough to tell me what output to be using. Edited August 29, 2015 by Scotty H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Tried 500, and 425 crossover points yesterday. ?? Nobody could tell any difference in a blind taste-test. Try playing a 600 Hz tone on one speaker at about 85 dB on a hand-held SPL meter (fast, "C" scale) and slowly walk back and forth in front of the speaker, listening for differences in the loudness of the tone, paying particular attention when you are on-axis or within 10 degrees. Then drop the crossover frequency to below 450 Hz and repeat the test. You should hear a fairly significant change in loudness in one case, but not the other. Your hand-held SPL meter will also provide a visual indicator of the difference. Chris Edited August 29, 2015 by Chris A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted August 29, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted August 29, 2015 Spoke with Chris....that works with you. Was he not there when Paul was designing the Jubilees? Tried 500, and 425 crossover points yesterday. ?? Nobody could tell any difference in a blind taste-test. Maybe you see it on paper? My ears did not tell any difference at all. Thanks for the reply Roy. Just trying to help you get the most out of the system as are most of the guys on here. In full disclosure, you and I have emailed each other and Chris was one of my techs during the testing. I see it on paper and in listening tests. It maybe that the environment of where the speakers are being listened to is dominating the sound. In any case have fun with the speakers and enjoy them. I am quite honored to have worked with paul on his last design. Take care. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Swweeeeetttttttttt......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 HF-T is a different horn than the 510, that's what's normally used in a theater 4 way configuration. Do you guys mean to say that you're using both 510 and 402 simultaneously? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted September 5, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted September 5, 2015 HF-T is a different horn than the 510, that's what's normally used in a theater 4 way configuration. Do you guys mean to say that you're using both 510 and 402 simultaneously?Not true. The 510 is used on the grand hf and hfn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbox Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 great read, entertainment at its best. thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 great read, entertainment at its best. thanks guys. The entertainment part is from the newbie, the rest is education for those willing to cut the wheat from the chaff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but, I think you are measuring the electrical resistance but, they are horn loaded and the horn adds more impedance to them acoustically (or something like that) I get lost in those conversations. That is correct, he is only measuring the DC resistance of the voice coil -- not the impedance. Like Mike said, the two bass bins perform identically. The differences are only aesthetic in nature. Several here own these, and I used to own a pair. I also built passive crossovers for people using schematics provided to me by Roy Delgado. Roy was Paul Klipsch' friend and co-inventor of the Jubilee, and no one knows more about them than Roy. Carry that nonsensical know-it-all attitude into a conversation with Roy, and you will find youself in a one way conversation. Whoever this "Chris" person is at Klipsch, they are mistaken. The electronic crossover settings should be set, utilizing a 4th order Linkwitz-Riley alignment in the neighborhood of 450Hz. The exact number escapes me, it's been a while, but I think it might be 435Hz. I'm sure the system sounds fine with the higher crossover point, but it's not right. The bass bin will be beaming quite a bit at that point, and the phase characteristics will be in a state of Helter Skelter. Until Roy has time to deal with you, I suggest you take direction from Chris A., Mike (2a3), J. Cullison (JC), Mark (1101), and Richard -- since all of these folks have access to the correct settings. Many here are accomplished professionals. No one here is going to bow down to you -- at least not until you fix your loudspeakers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Missed all of Roy's comments because I got pissed off and jumped to the last page of the thread to enter my comments, sorry. Hi Roy. :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 As mikebse2a3 pointed out, resistance and impedance are not the same thing, although they use the same value (ohms). Checking the resistance with an ohmmeter will tell you whether you have continuity (no broken wires or connections, for example), but does not show you the impedance of the speaker. The impedance shows what the amplifier is seeing while the speaker is operating in its cabinet or driving its horn. It varies greatly with frequency, so the single impedance number (4 ohm, 8 ohm, whatever) assigned to a speaker is a nominal value, really more of a judgement call than an absolute value. Yes....my test shows approx. 2/3 of what true value is. Close enough to show what ohm output I should be using on my amps. 3.2-3.3 = 4ohm speaker. The tops....measure 12...which calls for 16ohm output. Done! Next topic? lol Requires too much equipment to accurately measure the ohm, but what I did was absolutely good enough to tell me what output to be using. Except it isn't. A 4-ohm driver can become an 8-ohm driver once it's coupled to a horn (i.e. the acoustic part mentioned earlier). And since impedence varies with frequency, I don't see that measuring DC says anything relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 In that crappy room you can set the crossover(s) where ever you like. It'll still sound like sheet. On the other hand, if you like sheet................... Why don't don't you do some review work for The Absolute Sound? All the editors have rooms like that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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