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Lets Talk Projectors


fuzzydog

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So today I stopped by a couple of local stores to see what was available in projectors. I don't recall all of the model numbers but did get to see Sony, JVC, and Epson.  Of the three, the Sony appeared to have the best overall picture.  I know that the Sony I looked at was the VPLHW55ES.  The JVC and Epson projectors were comparable in price.  There was also a Sony VPLHW40ES available that I did not get to see but one store said that the "55" was only marginally better, while the other store also carried it and said the "40" got you to about 85% of the "55."  Bot are currently on sale at both stores with $1000 difference in price.  The Panasonic mentioned in this thread is also intriguing but I'd like to see if I can find a place that carries it to see what the picture looks like.

 

If the JVC is a comparable price, you were looking at the entry level model.  

 

Sony seems to be the best for out of the box picture, it needs the least amount of calibration to be correct.  Once you calibrate it I'm not sure you could say what you just did.  

 

Regarding the 40 vs. the 55, apparently the biggest difference is the dynamic iris, which most people end up disabling anyway.  

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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So today I stopped by a couple of local stores to see what was available in projectors. I don't recall all of the model numbers but did get to see Sony, JVC, and Epson.  Of the three, the Sony appeared to have the best overall picture.  I know that the Sony I looked at was the VPLHW55ES.  The JVC and Epson projectors were comparable in price.  There was also a Sony VPLHW40ES available that I did not get to see but one store said that the "55" was only marginally better, while the other store also carried it and said the "40" got you to about 85% of the "55."  Bot are currently on sale at both stores with $1000 difference in price.  The Panasonic mentioned in this thread is also intriguing but I'd like to see if I can find a place that carries it to see what the picture looks like.

 

If the JVC is a comparable price, you were looking at the entry level model.  

 

Sony seems to be the best for out of the box picture, it needs the least amount of calibration to be correct.  Once you calibrate it I'm not sure you could say what you just did.  

 

Regarding the 40 vs. the 55, apparently the biggest difference is the dynamic iris, which most people end up disabling anyway.  

 

 

Panasonic has a showroom in Hollywood, CA, if that's any help (!).

 

I hear dealers don't make much money off of Panasonic projectors, so you may have a hard time finding one.  Check their website.

 

Our Panasonic (model from two years ago +) is simply magnificent.  I am a lifelong photography buff, who was dissappointed with Epson projectors at SFSU. 

 

Look for reviews and rankings in Home Theater and similar magazines.

 

Our dealer suggested going directly from our OPPO player to the projector via HDMI, skipping any picture control in an AVR or a Pre/Pro.  We love the results.  With a good projector (like a Panasonic) you have plenty of picture control (brightness, contrast, sharpness, aspect ratio, position, and, it seems like, dozens more) without putting the needless circuitry of an AVR in the signal path gumming things up.  Naturally you do use the AVR for audio.  We have 3 HDMIs coming out of the OPPO player: one to a small monitor (out of sight, back near the eqquipment rack) one taking audio to the AVR, and one taking video directly to the projector.

 

Volume control, tone control, and the choice of Audyssey configurations show on the small monitor, but not on the big projection screen, so we can make changes during a movie without the audience really being aware that this is what we are doing.  Some movies need volume changes during the film, especially movies of the 1950s & 1960s that originally had very dynamic multichannel magnetic soundtracks in which the score was mastered incorrectly (usually too low) in the new mixdown to Blu-ray from the original sound elements (multichannel music, multichannel sound effects, and -- usually -- mono dialog).

 

I agree with Metropolis Lake Outfitters that most people probably disable the dynamic iris -- it is a basically stupid feature that no movie we have run in the last several years has needed, and it oftem makes brightness changes in the middle of a perfectly good shot.  "Hey, what happened, did the sun go behind a cloud?"

Edited by garyrc
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Our dealer suggested going directly from our OPPO player to the projector via HDMI, skipping any picture control in an AVR or a Pre/Pro.  We love the results.  With a good projector (like a Panasonic) you have plenty of picture control (brightness, contrast, sharpness, aspect ratio, position, and, it seems like, dozens more) without putting the needless circuitry of an AVR in the signal path gumming things up.

In my opinion, gumming the signal up isn't nearly as much of an issue as introducing handshake issues. I have had to reboot my AVR or projector on multiple occasions after switching sources or whatever. Seems like a dedicated output to the projector from the blu ray would be nice, but, I use multiple source units so your projector would have to have multiple inputs if you did that.

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So today I stopped by a couple of local stores to see what was available in projectors. I don't recall all of the model numbers but did get to see Sony, JVC, and Epson.  Of the three, the Sony appeared to have the best overall picture.  I know that the Sony I looked at was the VPLHW55ES.  The JVC and Epson projectors were comparable in price.  There was also a Sony VPLHW40ES available that I did not get to see but one store said that the "55" was only marginally better, while the other store also carried it and said the "40" got you to about 85% of the "55."  Bot are currently on sale at both stores with $1000 difference in price.  The Panasonic mentioned in this thread is also intriguing but I'd like to see if I can find a place that carries it to see what the picture looks like.

 

If the JVC is a comparable price, you were looking at the entry level model.  

 

Sony seems to be the best for out of the box picture, it needs the least amount of calibration to be correct.  Once you calibrate it I'm not sure you could say what you just did.  

 

Regarding the 40 vs. the 55, apparently the biggest difference is the dynamic iris, which most people end up disabling anyway.  

 

 

 

The other models I saw were the JVC DLA‑X500R and the Epson 5030UB.  The place where I saw the Sony and JVC was a bit more of a high-end home theater store that does custom installations.  They had dedicated demo rooms for each projector -- nicer than what you would find at Best Buy or Fry's Electronics.  I'd be surprised if they were not calibrated properly just because of the type of store this was but I don't know for sure.  Now, they did have different screens and there may have had different grades of screens on each projector -- all the screens they had on display were "gray" screens.  Best Buy also carried both of the Sony's and is where i was able to see the Epson.  The main difference between the Sony and Epson, as told by the salesmane and what seemed to be the case is that the Epson will be brighter but they Sony would have more accurrate colors.  Of course, it's probably more likely that they were not calibrated at Besty Buy as compared to the other store, but again,that is just an assumption.

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The main difference between the Sony and Epson, as told by the salesmane and what seemed to be the case is that the Epson will be brighter but they Sony would have more accurrate colors.

 

Most projectors have more than one brightness setting:  "Brightness" and also "full power bulb setting" vs "Eco setting."  Were all of the contending projectors set the same way?

 

As far as "more accurate color" is concerned, what did they use as the standard against which "accuracy" was measured?   That would be hard to do (?).  

 

Read magazine and online reviews by experts then take them back to the stores and discuss them with the one sales person in each store who knows something.  Often they need to haul a tech person out of the back room.

 

Selecting a projector was harder for us than selecting any other component, except maybe speakers, now that you can't make listening comparisons most places.

 

Make sure you can return a projector that you decide isn't what you want.  Given the prices of these things, they should kiss your nether regions.

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Well after much deliberation over technical specs and reading reviews online, the deciding factor ended up being the color...the white Epson 5030UB wins on WAF.

 

 

Congratulations! One thing to be sure and check is the latest firmware update. They added a feature called super resolution which is similar to Darbee. Here's the AVS thread in case you haven't seen it. Lots of tips and advice......

 

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/1490301-official-epson-eh-tw-9200-5030ub-owners-thread.html

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So today I stopped by a couple of local stores to see what was available in projectors. I don't recall all of the model numbers but did get to see Sony, JVC, and Epson.  Of the three, the Sony appeared to have the best overall picture.  I know that the Sony I looked at was the VPLHW55ES.  The JVC and Epson projectors were comparable in price.  There was also a Sony VPLHW40ES available that I did not get to see but one store said that the "55" was only marginally better, while the other store also carried it and said the "40" got you to about 85% of the "55."  Bot are currently on sale at both stores with $1000 difference in price.  The Panasonic mentioned in this thread is also intriguing but I'd like to see if I can find a place that carries it to see what the picture looks like.

 

If the JVC is a comparable price, you were looking at the entry level model.  

 

Sony seems to be the best for out of the box picture, it needs the least amount of calibration to be correct.  Once you calibrate it I'm not sure you could say what you just did.  

 

Regarding the 40 vs. the 55, apparently the biggest difference is the dynamic iris, which most people end up disabling anyway.  

 

 

 

The other models I saw were the JVC DLA‑X500R and the Epson 5030UB.  The place where I saw the Sony and JVC was a bit more of a high-end home theater store that does custom installations.  They had dedicated demo rooms for each projector -- nicer than what you would find at Best Buy or Fry's Electronics.  I'd be surprised if they were not calibrated properly just because of the type of store this was but I don't know for sure.  Now, they did have different screens and there may have had different grades of screens on each projector -- all the screens they had on display were "gray" screens.  Best Buy also carried both of the Sony's and is where i was able to see the Epson.  The main difference between the Sony and Epson, as told by the salesmane and what seemed to be the case is that the Epson will be brighter but they Sony would have more accurrate colors.  Of course, it's probably more likely that they were not calibrated at Besty Buy as compared to the other store, but again,that is just an assumption.

 

 

If one projector offers vastly more accurate colors than another one it's because that other one isn't calibrated. :)  Once you calibrate a JVC it's a non-issue but out of the box, I've heard multiple installers and calibrators say the Sony is more accurate.  I sell JVC myself and have a DLA-X700RB that was calibrated by AccuCal.  No way would I trade it for a Sony 40 or 55.  The Sony is probably quieter on high but ask anybody who could directly compare them and they will say the JVC wins in the black level department hands down, there's several professional reviews published that say this.  The JVC has better native contrast without having to use the dynamic iris but at least on the one I have it's still there if you really want it for some odd reason.  

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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I will sell it once the new screen is in place

Thanks, I was just curious. I think a 103" would be perfect for my family room. Would it be possible for me to install a couple of small D-rings on the top border to hang screen on little hooks.

d_rings_clamped_nickel_plated_enlarged.j

Just thinking of the mounting possibilities considering it would not be a permanent install. I would stow away the screen when not in use, as well as the projector.

keep in mind

Bill if ou didn this and zoomed a film to

Fit the 2.35 you would have black light shooting onto your walls. 2.35 screens work best when you have black above and below the screen to catch the over shot with the black bars.

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Well after much deliberation over technical specs and reading reviews online, the deciding factor ended up being the color...the white Epson 5030UB wins on WAF.

 

 

Well that's one feature I hadn't considered!  Congrats on the new projector!  Let us know how you like it.

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The main difference between the Sony and Epson, as told by the salesmane and what seemed to be the case is that the Epson will be brighter but they Sony would have more accurrate colors.

 

Most projectors have more than one brightness setting:  "Brightness" and also "full power bulb setting" vs "Eco setting."  Were all of the contending projectors set the same way?

 

As far as "more accurate color" is concerned, what did they use as the standard against which "accuracy" was measured?   That would be hard to do (?).  

 

Read magazine and online reviews by experts then take them back to the stores and discuss them with the one sales person in each store who knows something.  Often they need to haul a tech person out of the back room.

 

Selecting a projector was harder for us than selecting any other component, except maybe speakers, now that you can't make listening comparisons most places.

 

Make sure you can return a projector that you decide isn't what you want.  Given the prices of these things, they should kiss your nether regions.

 

 

I don't know what the brightness settings were -- didn't know enough to ask.  They were all displayed prominently in "theater rooms" so I would think if they were really trying to sell them, they would have them on the brightest settings, but I don't know either way.

 

As far as the color accuracy, to be more specifc they were referring to skin tone, stating the Sony would look more real -- which is what I saw.  The comment was that for movies, the color accuracy might be more important but for sports brightness may be more important.

 

Thanks for the suggestions -- sounds like good advice.  I hope it won't be too difficult to decide on a projector but I'd really like to be able to see how it looks in person, which could limit the options.  A lot of them are on sale right now and it seems many of the models have been out for a couple of years which leads me to think that maybe there are newer models coming out soon.  If that is the case, it might be better to wait a little bit and see what happens.  I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger as I don't know which one I want but these sales had me thinking I might need to act quickly but after some thought, that's usually not the case with electronics.

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If one projector offers vastly more accurate colors than another one it's because that other one isn't calibrated. :)  Once you calibrate a JVC it's a non-issue but out of the box, I've heard multiple installers and calibrators say the Sony is more accurate.  I sell JVC myself and have a DLA-X700RB that was calibrated by AccuCal.  No way would I trade it for a Sony 40 or 55.  The Sony is probably quieter on high but ask anybody who could directly compare them and they will say the JVC wins in the black level department hands down, there's several professional reviews published that say this.  The JVC has better native contrast without having to use the dynamic iris but at least on the one I have it's still there if you really want it for some odd reason.  

 

 

The one I saw wasn't the DLA-X700RB, which I just saw C-Net rave as the best projector they have reviewed.  Of course it is quite a bit more expensive than the others and probably out of my price range.  One thing I noticed negatively about the JVC I saw is that there was a "grain" to the picture (i.e., it wasn't very sharp).  However, I'm starting to believe that was an artifact of the screen used and probably not the projector.  I need to go back and look at them again.

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The main difference between the Sony and Epson, as told by the salesmane and what seemed to be the case is that the Epson will be brighter but they Sony would have more accurrate colors.

 

Most projectors have more than one brightness setting:  "Brightness" and also "full power bulb setting" vs "Eco setting."  Were all of the contending projectors set the same way?

 

As far as "more accurate color" is concerned, what did they use as the standard against which "accuracy" was measured?   That would be hard to do (?).  

...

Make sure you can return a projector that you decide isn't what you want.  Given the prices of these things, they should kiss your nether regions.

 

 

I don't know what the brightness settings were -- didn't know enough to ask.  They were all displayed prominently in "theater rooms" so I would think if they were really trying to sell them, they would have them on the brightest settings, but I don't know either way.

 

As far as the color accuracy, to be more specifc they were referring to skin tone, stating the Sony would look more real -- which is what I saw.  The comment was that for movies, the color accuracy might be more important but for sports brightness may be more important. ...

 

Skin tone varies from movie to movie, and even from one Blu-ray transfer to another.  For example, a recent review of The King and I  (I think it may have been on Blu-ray.com) said that the skin tones were darker than in the original film.  I saw the original a few times in the theater, once in a 35mm CinemaScope 55 print, and twice in a blow-up to 70 mm, and the theatrical skin tones were not as dark as on the Blu-ray.  I've seen a few Blu-rays with washed out skin tones, as well.  Most of the time skin is within the range of plausibility on our set-up, but quality control on any factor in the home media industry isn't too good.  As you may know Blu-rays of Spartacus, Fiddler on the Roof, and Patton have been heavily criticized for poor quality, two of them for pasty faced over- softness.  They actually re-authored Patton, and the new transfer looks much better.  It may be that the Sony produces skin tone -- on the average -- that seems closer to the imagined original than the contenders.

Edited by garyrc
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Well after much deliberation over technical specs and reading reviews online, the deciding factor ended up being the color...the white Epson 5030UB wins on WAF.

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

So have you tried shooting an image on the wall yet get an idea for screen size?

 

 

Not yet, my contractor is still working on drywall.  Supposed to be another week till the room gets painted and we can mount the projector.   

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Well after much deliberation over technical specs and reading reviews online, the deciding factor ended up being the color...the white Epson 5030UB wins on WAF.

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

So have you tried shooting an image on the wall yet get an idea for screen size?

 

 

Not yet, my contractor is still working on drywall.  Supposed to be another week till the room gets painted and we can mount the projector.   

 

Looking forward to your impressions. Experiment before you mount it unless it's going as far away from the screen location as possible.

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As far as the color accuracy, to be more specifc they were referring to skin tone, stating the Sony would look more real -- which is what I saw.  The comment was that for movies, the color accuracy might be more important but for sports brightness may be more important. ...

 

Skin tone varies from movie to movie, and even from one Blu-ray transfer to another.  For example, a recent review of The King and I  (I think it may have been on Blu-ray.com) said that the skin tones were darker than in the original film.  I saw the original a few times in the theater, once in a 35mm CinemaScope 55 print, and twice in a blow-up to 70 mm, and the theatrical skin tones were not as dark as on the Blu-ray.  I've seen a few Blu-rays with washed out skin tones, as well.  Most of the time skin is within the range of plausibility on our set-up, but quality control on any factor in the home media industry isn't too good.  As you may know Blu-rays of Spartacus, Fiddler on the Roof, and Patton have been heavily criticized for poor quality, two of them for pasty faced over- softness.  They actually re-authored Patton, and the new transfer looks much better.  It may be that the Sony produces skin tone -- on the average -- that seems closer to the imagined original than the contenders.

Skin tone is all about calibration. They changed on mine drastically after it was calibrated. Comparing skin tones on two brands of projectors when neither are calibrated is kind of a waste of time unless you just really don't want to ever calibrate it for some reason. After seeing mine change I am a firm believer that when you are shopping for projectors you need to just go ahead and allocate/budget money for a professional calibration in with the purchase price. Before you do this, skin tones that look red, green, washed out, or too dark may be very common.

 

The one I saw wasn't the DLA-X700RB, which I just saw C-Net rave as the best projector they have reviewed.

Even so, straight out of the box mine was black clipping pretty bad so details got lost on dark scenes. Huge difference after calibration in that department. It would be dumb to get an $8,000 projector then balk at $350 to have it calibrated.

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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