oldtimer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I never watched a movie at reference levels, its to loud for me hehe. Max is -10 for me. Mostly its around -15 or -20. But maybe now its possible because the amp can produce clean sound without any distortion. Thx for the tips and technical input guys. From the distance you listen there is no need to go to reference levels. The advantage of an outboard amp is stated above---headroom and dynamics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) Not a huge fan of Emo myself... they do deliver to a price point though. Muscular and strong they are. Edited August 31, 2015 by Schu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) No you have it wrong. "Muscular, and strong. They are." Sorry. I hate when Yoda gets in my head. Edited August 31, 2015 by oldtimer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arash Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Not a huge fan of Emo myself... they do deliver to a price point though. Muscular and strong they are. I can't think of a better solution than Hypex modules considering the price. their new NCore 400W@8ohms is a huge step forward in Class D. probably the only Class D that can deliver "real music" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Not a huge fan of Emo myself... they do deliver to a price point though. Muscular and strong they are. I can't think of a better solution than Hypex modules considering the price. their new NCore 400W@8ohms is a huge step forward in Class D. probably the only Class D that can deliver "real music" I wish they made one that was under 100wpch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 what other gear your working with? you sit close and dont listen loud. I'm wondering if the money could be spent better in another area? i know its not answering your question at all. i am one of the ones against everyone else here. i had amps before. tons of them. i have had emotiva xa-2/3/5 upa-1 mono blocks for all seven channels then went back to xpa-2/5 and then switched to sherbourn 350-7. then sold it and now run flagship denon avr and have no problem playing 10 db above reference and maybe even louder. that is about all my ears can handle for short bursts. like i said maybe you are running a small subwoofer. and that amp money could be spend getting a beast subwoofer that could benefit your theater experience more?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) I never watched a movie at reference levels, its to loud for me hehe. Max is -10 for me. Mostly its around -15 or -20. But maybe now its possible because the amp can produce clean sound without any distortion. Thx for the tips and technical input guys. Have you calibrated with Audyssey, or something like it? Main Volume Control settings (e.g., -10, -15, -20) don't have a lot of meaning unless you have calibrated your system, room, and listening position with something like Audyssey, in which case reference level = 0 (unless your speakers are so efficient that the trim levels on your monitor screen are bottoming out -- usually -12. If that happens, then you need to go through procedures to reset reference level to a lower reading on your MVC. I don't think that will happen on your system). My family and several guests listen at about 5 dB below reference, on the average. Dialog sounds realistic in loudness. Some music and special effects are pretty loud, but not too loud. We have calibrated with Audyssey and use NAD separate power amplifiers that are pretty clean and undistorted. Edited September 1, 2015 by garyrc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) I never watched a movie at reference levels, its to loud for me hehe. Max is -10 for me. Mostly its around -15 or -20. But maybe now its possible because the amp can produce clean sound without any distortion. Thx for the tips and technical input guys. From the distance you listen there is no need to go to reference levels. The advantage of an outboard amp is stated above---headroom and dynamics. If the microphones (used by Audyssey or other REQ systems) are at the distance he listens, then reference level will be at about the level the mixers heard in the control room, as measured by a SPL meter. It is then a matter of personal preference whether or not to llisten at reference. Because the close reflections of a small room complicate the matter a bit psychoacoustically, THX put a chart with recommended reductions in dB below reference. In my room, they recommend a cut of 5 dB, which sounds fine to me. If I can find that chart, I'll post it. Edited September 1, 2015 by garyrc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arash Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Not a huge fan of Emo myself... they do deliver to a price point though. Muscular and strong they are. I can't think of a better solution than Hypex modules considering the price. their new NCore 400W@8ohms is a huge step forward in Class D. probably the only Class D that can deliver "real music" I wish they made one that was under 100wpch. Hypex has amplifiers from 32wpc up to 3200wpc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestelder Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 Hi garyrc, You are right my system is calibrated by audyssey, where each speaker is set around and subwoofer is set at 75 db So when the volume dial is at 0 the system plays at reference levels. I would love to see the THX chart you talked about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 what other gear your working with? you sit close and dont listen loud. I'm wondering if the money could be spent better in another area? i know its not answering your question at all. i am one of the ones against everyone else here. i had amps before. tons of them. i have had emotiva xa-2/3/5 upa-1 mono blocks for all seven channels then went back to xpa-2/5 and then switched to sherbourn 350-7. then sold it and now run flagship denon avr and have no problem playing 10 db above reference and maybe even louder. that is about all my ears can handle for short bursts. like i said maybe you are running a small subwoofer. and that amp money could be spend getting a beast subwoofer that could benefit your theater experience more?? I'm with you on needing another amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) Not a huge fan of Emo myself... they do deliver to a price point though. Muscular and strong they are. I can't think of a better solution than Hypex modules considering the price. their new NCore 400W@8ohms is a huge step forward in Class D. probably the only Class D that can deliver "real music" I wish they made one that was under 100wpch. Hypex has amplifiers from 32wpc up to 3200wpc. Yes, but the NCore is balanced... I contacted them and they have no under 100wpc balanced NCore amps or similar amp. Edited September 1, 2015 by ellisr63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Hi garyrc, You are right my system is calibrated by audyssey, where each speaker is set around and subwoofer is set at 75 db So when the volume dial is at 0 the system plays at reference levels. I would love to see the THX chart you talked about. The chart would not print on the forum. I got a notice "you are not allowed to use that image extension in this community." It is over on tthe AVS forum somewhere. The essence of the information is that for most likely sized HTs (1,500 to 5,000 cu ft), calibrated with Audyssey, or a similar REQ, setting the Main Volume control to about 5 to 7 dB below Reference will produce a sound level that "sounds like" Reference. The 5 to 7 dB reduction of playback is recommended because the presence of near ceiling and walls, unless the room is very fully treated with diffusors and absorbers (and, even then ... ), returns sound much earlier than in big rooms, and that sound more nearly overlaps with original sound (and has more room modes and ringing), so our brains perceive it as louder. Because of this, to simulate Reference Level, we should turn the Main Volume control down a few dB. My room is about 5,000 cu ft, and sure enough, about 5 dB below true Reference on the volume control sounds about right for most movies. That delivers dialog that sounds natural in loudness, and produces very brief peaks in music and sound effects @ 100 dB through main speakers, and 110 dB through the subwoofer, which, due to my relatively near ceiling and walls (compared to those of commercial movie theaters) "sounds like" Reference, although it is 5 dB below. Some explanation may be necessary. 1) A band limited pink noise signal @ 85 dB, which is 20 dB below Full Scale (Fs. the loudest THX allows) for the main speakers, and 30 dB below Fs for subwoofers is standard in commercial movie theater sized rooms. These are professional standards. Audyssey decided to use a level of only 75 dB, which is 30 dB below Fs for main speakers so that their test "pings" would not be so loud that they annoyed consumers. Both standards produce exactly the same SPL in a calibrated room of any size at Fs, in other words 105 dB Full Scale (peaks) for main speakers, and 115 dB for subwoofers. If you calibrate with Audyssey and play a movie recorded conventionally (a few aren't) at Reference Level, you should get occasional, brief peaks at 105 dB from front speakers, and 115 dB from subwoofers. If, as recommended, we set the Main Volume to about 5 dB below Reference we would get very brief peaks in music and sound effects of "only" 100 dB from main speakers, and 110 dB from subs. To get your SPL meter to read those peaks accurately, you would probably need to set it at "Fast" and "Flat" or "C," or use a peak reading meter (if you were not reading brief peaks, but instead reading pink noise levels, you could use "Slow," but pink noise at peak level would be outrageous, and could be damaging to your speakers. I believe PWK said his SPL meter, when used to read peaks in music, lagged 13 dB behind true peak level, due to needle ballistics). All of the above apply to movies only. For music sources, including CDs, SACDs, etc., there are no agreed upon recording level standards, other than "it's better not to distort." Too bad. Google "Loudness Wars." Edited September 2, 2015 by garyrc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I heard amps can play certain frequencies better then receivers is this true? Sure. Otherwise, why would companies make them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestelder Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Thank you very much garyrc for posting the information. It sounds logic that how smaller the room is the higher the decibel cut will be from reference level. For me at -10 the voices sound crystal clear, and are around 60 db.I get max peaks around 95 db. So its not reference levels, because its to loud for my taste. I also use audyssey dynamic eq, because of this it sounds like reference level but less louder. I could watch non action movies at reference level, they peak around 85 db. Greetings Forestelder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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