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Musical Sub vs HT Sub


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The whole nature of the debate puzzles me. Are there better HT tweeters vs musical tweeters?  How about the same for midrange?

Good is good, clear is clear, accurate is accurate, sound is sound.  It is almost as if the debate is more "how much crap in the sound are you willing to put up with in movies so long as its low and loud."  Maybe because I have always had horn subs but I am not willing to compromise accuracy for whatever it is in a "HT sub."

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The whole nature of the debate puzzles me. Are there better HT tweeters vs musical tweeters?  How about the same for midrange?

Sure there are, and can probably be better generalized than subs.  Anybody who thinks otherwise ought to listen to their favorite music recording on some KL-650-THX's or an 88 Special.  For music, it seems that most people tend to like them to be more colored and sparkly.  Music on good HT mids and tweets is very dry and boring, at least the smaller ones.  The big ones apparently can slam but small HT speakers are no fun for music in my opinion.  

 

I've even heard that the uber-expensive James speakers sound boring compared to what most people are used to hearing.  For music most guys prefer cheaper ones that are more colored.  

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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My take  - if it's 'musical' then that indicates that it's properly tuned and reasonably flat frequency response, ie not a one-note wonder. If it can do that, it can accurately reproduce whatever LFE sound effects a movie director/sound mixer intended for a soundtrack. 

 

Or if you're like 80% of the guys who have demoed their systems for me, you're more about 'blowing stuff up' noises and louder and lower is better. 

 

I care less for the latter approach. 

 

My test track is Starship Trooper by Yes, if a sub can reproduce the notes of Chris Squire's Moog Taurus bass pedals, that's the sub I want in my room for music or movies. 

 

I run the Klipsch THX sub system in a 17x25x8 room, that's 3400 ft3, about perfect for THX spec. Room is truly those dimensions as there are only two small doorways leading to hallways, not a sealed space true, but pretty 'normal' space for good listening. THe pine walls help considerably. 

Edited by colterphoto1
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My take is that it is the integration of the sub into your system.  Some are just not right.  Find the one that suits you best.

 

An "all horn" low end setup like I have tends to have tight and fast bass characteristics .

 

I have been fortunate and had excellent results using the Bill Fitzmaurice Titan 48 horn subs which mated very well with the MWMs.

 

Currently, I have a pair of KPT-684s which I installed because I preferred an "all Klipsch" setup, and for increased output.  Again, they tend to have a "fast" response and mate well with my setup.

 

I think the ones who may struggle would be the guy who is trying to have 1 setup and have it be for both HT and music.  That may be a challenge to have such a system be excellent in both regards.  I don't know because my setup is dedicated for music only.

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but my "little" Martin Logan Depth w/ (3) servo controlled sealed 8" woofers is fairly badass. You would like that one AU1C

+1

I thought I was the only one on the forum running an ML Depth i . . . I am about 50/50 for movies and music with it. Love it for both, running 9 channels in the all Heritage HT.

Edited by Rhetor
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My take  - if it's 'musical' then that indicates that it's properly tuned and reasonably flat frequency response, ie not a one-note wonder. If it can do that, it can accurately reproduce whatever LFE sound effects a movie director/sound mixer intended for a soundtrack. 

 

Or if you're like 80% of the guys who have demoed their systems for me, you're more about 'blowing stuff up' noises and louder and lower is better. 

 

I care less for the latter approach. 

 

My test track is Starship Trooper by Yes, if a sub can reproduce the notes of Chris Squire's Moog Taurus bass pedals, that's the sub I want in my room for music or movies. 

 

I run the Klipsch THX sub system in a 17x25x8 room, that's 3400 ft3, about perfect for THX spec. Room is truly those dimensions as there are only two small doorways leading to hallways, not a sealed space true, but pretty 'normal' space for good listening. THe pine walls help considerably.

The Wurm

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My take  - if it's 'musical' then that indicates that it's properly tuned and reasonably flat frequency response, ie not a one-note wonder. If it can do that, it can accurately reproduce whatever LFE sound effects a movie director/sound mixer intended for a soundtrack. 

 

My test track is Starship Trooper by Yes, if a sub can reproduce the notes of Chris Squire's Moog Taurus bass pedals, that's the sub I want in my room for music or movies. 

 

That pedal only goes down to 20 hz though.  There's lots of LFE's in movies that are significantly lower.  Big movie fans would probably say this approach is still a compromise.  

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I think the ones who may struggle would be the guy who is trying to have 1 setup and have it be for both HT and music.  That may be a challenge to have such a system be excellent in both regards.  I don't know because my setup is dedicated for music only.

 

Put some big sealed subs up front and pair it with a nice amp that has a lot of overhead and you can do both just fine, assuming the rest of your system is music oriented and you blend with your mains well.  

 

The challenge would be dealing with ported subs that have obnoxious peaks.  You've got two ends of the spectrum there:  

 

1. The aforementioned "one hit wonders" that sound fun on certain rap songs but fall off the grid below 30 hz.  Even if they halfway sound good on music they're going to suck on movies.  

 

2. The infrasonic setups that aren't EQ'ed, which would be awesome on movies but would suck otherwise.  For example, this came from Nick at Stereo Integrity and explains it better than I can:

 

"If you want the kickdrum feel I suggest going with sealed enclosures. I have responded to many many emails asking what the problem is because they purchased multiple 18's and put them in big ported enclosures tuned very low and all they get is rumbling and augmented extreme lower frequencies. Ported alignments look good on paper but many people don't like them because they have too much bottom end which drowns out the upper frequencies. For neutral sound reproduction on the bottom octave I suggest going sealed...especially if you want the feeling while watching live music. :)"

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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but my "little" Martin Logan Depth w/ (3) servo controlled sealed 8" woofers is fairly badass. You would like that one AU1C

+1

I thought I was the only one on the forum running an ML Depth i . . . I am about 50/50 for movies and music with it. Love it for both, running 9 channels in the all Heritage HT.

 

It's definitely a strong sub. I believe it will end up back with the Belles. It seems to keep up better than the R-115. The (3) active 8's are fairly impressive. Have you ever heard the big brother (Descent)? Very nice. I had a chance to score 2 of those but passed. Still regret that.

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My experience is that subs that play ultra low for HT applications are "tubby".  Not tight enough and too sloppy for music.

 

Look at Danley's line up.  He separates the music from Cinema applications.  There's a reason.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible to find and integrate a sub and have it work for both music and HT............I just think it's hard to do.  I know I want super low for HT and I'm not at all happy with that type of sound for my music.  For my music I want fast and hard hitting, and HT subs that play super low are slow and fat, and muddy the music.

 

I think NIck agrees, above.

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but my "little" Martin Logan Depth w/ (3) servo controlled sealed 8" woofers is fairly badass. You would like that one AU1C

+1

I thought I was the only one on the forum running an ML Depth i . . . I am about 50/50 for movies and music with it. Love it for both, running 9 channels in the all Heritage HT.

 

It's definitely a strong sub. I believe it will end up back with the Belles. It seems to keep up better than the R-115. The (3) active 8's are fairly impressive. Have you ever heard the big brother (Descent)? Very nice. I had a chance to score 2 of those but passed. Still regret that.

 

I have been looking for a used Descent i . . . quietly . . . pre-owned . . . have not found a reasonably priced one yet . . .

 

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