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Musical Sub vs HT Sub


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I just don't understand why somebody would snub their nose at something like an Acoustic Elegance 15 for both music and HT. They have a copper voice coil and therefore have some of the lowest distortion in a sub out there. Efficiency is real nice because of this as well. You can use them down to 10 hz yet due to the low distortion people are using them as high end midwoofers. There is a specialty builder who is using them in an uber-expensive tower setup, and by uber-expensive I mean the aforementioned $13,000 pair wouldn't hold a candle to the price, I'm pretty sure I was told these are up around 200-250 grand a pair. You can model them along with popular 18's used in home theater and they're louder and go just as low, without the impedance curve going through the roof at the upper end of the spectrum. They have as much xmax/xmech as some of the popular 18's.

So what's the problem? Why can't multiple AV15's in a sealed box be great at both? This driver is extremly highly regarded among those in the know, yet both self proclaimed audiophiles and HT fanatics still both snub their nose at the 15" size alone. Too big for one and not big enough for the other.

I'm after a different sound I tried a few subs in my 2 ch and didn't like it , I feel my speakers sound that good . I dumped allot of money on my 2 ch system and I am 100% happy the way it is . I don't care for allot of bass 

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I just don't understand why somebody would snub their nose at something like an Acoustic Elegance 15 for both music and HT. They have a copper voice coil and therefore have some of the lowest distortion in a sub out there. Efficiency is real nice because of this as well. You can use them down to 10 hz yet due to the low distortion people are using them as high end midwoofers. There is a specialty builder who is using them in an uber-expensive tower setup, and by uber-expensive I mean the aforementioned $13,000 pair wouldn't hold a candle to the price, I'm pretty sure I was told these are up around 200-250 grand a pair. You can model them along with popular 18's used in home theater and they're louder and go just as low, without the impedance curve going through the roof at the upper end of the spectrum. They have as much xmax/xmech as some of the popular 18's.

So what's the problem? Why can't multiple AV15's in a sealed box be great at both? This driver is extremly highly regarded among those in the know, yet both self proclaimed audiophiles and HT fanatics still both snub their nose at the 15" size alone. Too big for one and not big enough for the other.

I'm after a different sound I tried a few subs in my 2 ch and didn't like it , I feel my speakers sound that good . I dumped allot of money on my 2 ch system and I am 100% happy the way it is . I don't care for allot of bass

Good for you. It can be so hard dialing in what you like and then just enjoy it. I like low end so I run 2.1. Everyone's ears are different. +1 fir you finding that sweet spot for you sans a sub.

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My take  - if it's 'musical' then that indicates that it's properly tuned and reasonably flat frequency response, ie not a one-note wonder.

Actually, if it's a one note wonder, it's probably the room (and placement) that's doing it.

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My take  - if it's 'musical' then that indicates that it's properly tuned and reasonably flat frequency response, ie not a one-note wonder.

Actually, if it's a one note wonder, it's probably the room (and placement) that's doing it.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_2/polk-psw-505-subwoofer-4-2005.html

24 decibel difference in peak output between 20 hz and about 70 hz and over 40 decibels difference between 20 and 63 to stay under 10% THD. Ain't no placement magic going to fix that. Lots of cheap subs do this exact same thing. This is probably one of the better ones in that realm.

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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Any thoughts re down vs forward firing? I am just using a small KW100 down firing. Seems fine for my environment. Speaking of which, the new condo we moved into last week seems to have much more room bass. I have had to cut it back a bit.

 

It seems timely you brought this up. 

 

Yesterday I moved my Klipsch RW-12d from the center of the room (between the L/R) to a corner, and now the very nice sounding "musical" sub is now sounding kind of loud and boomy!  I re-ran Audyssey, and I did a couple of other things to cut down on the now OVERLY loud sub, but I'm not sure what to do.

 

post-58280-0-33140000-1441660915_thumb.j

Edited by wvu80
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Any thoughts re down vs forward firing? I am just using a small KW100 down firing. Seems fine for my environment. Speaking of which, the new condo we moved into last week seems to have much more room bass. I have had to cut it back a bit.

It seems timely you brought this up.

Yesterday I moved my Klipsch RW-12d from the center of the room (between the L/R) to a corner, and now the very nice sounding "musical" sub is now sounding kind of loud and boomy! I re-ran Audyssey, and I did a couple of other things to cut down on the now OVERLY loud sub, but I'm not sure what to do.

IMG_4445.JPG

thats cause you gained 3db moving from 1/4 space to 1/8 space. Pretty common
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Any thoughts re down vs forward firing? I am just using a small KW100 down firing. Seems fine for my environment. Speaking of which, the new condo we moved into last week seems to have much more room bass. I have had to cut it back a bit.

It seems timely you brought this up.

Yesterday I moved my Klipsch RW-12d from the center of the room (between the L/R) to a corner, and now the very nice sounding "musical" sub is now sounding kind of loud and boomy! I re-ran Audyssey, and I did a couple of other things to cut down on the now OVERLY loud sub, but I'm not sure what to do.

IMG_4445.JPG

thats cause you gained 3db moving from 1/4 space to 1/8 space. Pretty common

 

 

Yep, a little too much boundary gain resulting in boominess.

 

Bill

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Without reading through all 7 pages I'd just like to point out that if you spend thousands today on a brand new sub(s) it should very well be both "musical" and HT competent. Obviously room, room size and position of both the sub(s) and listening position are going to play huge parts. Now when you're speaking of older, less expensive subs I believe there is a notable difference between subs that were designed for "music" and those that were designed for home theater. A couple clear examples off the top of my head are the Klipsch SW line, specifically the 10 and 12" models and also the RSW-10. To me, these seem clearly designed for music and are actually very good for that purpose when mated with bookshelf speakers or monitors. When it comes to theater I think of the HSG? Sub10 & Sub12 with the down-firing driver and rear facing port. When in the right room they can provide plenty of rumble for movies but I would not depend on them for filling in the bottom end for music. They would be better than nothing but not my first choice. Anyway, just my two cents.

 

Jesse

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I'd just like to point out that if you spend thousands today on a brand new sub(s) it should very well be both "musical" and HT competent.

Price has nothing to do with it. You can easily spend thousands on multiple overpriced factory subs that don't sound that great on music. You can spend 5 digits on a setup that chases 10 hz performance and it will probably sound awful on music. And, you can spend about $600 and get a sealed 18 and pro style amp with a pretty nice DSP that would do pretty well on both, or double that for $1,100. Although, audiophiles would still snub their nose at it.

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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