vindeville Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) I tried this yesterday and am interested in thoughts and if anyone has explored this before. I ripped a 4x4 at 45 degrees to make 2.5" H x a little under 5" W wedges. I centered these and attached these to the tailboard to create a deflector and reduce reflection back into the horn off the flat tail piece. My impressions are that the lower midrange improved and the bass got more lively and louder almost like a jumbo LaScala but with deeper bass. It does however also seem more peaky through the mid bass in a somewhat distracting way. It would be nice if someone could do this who has a means to do some testing and measuring. Edited September 9, 2015 by vindeville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spezjag Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I love your idea! I know some have fully enclosed the back of the K'horn bass cabinets (so it does not rely on a 90* room corner to complete the bass horn), and I understand that has some beneficial effects as well. Your observations are appreciated! Somewhat related to your idea, and I'm sure it's not an original thought on my part, but I had something of the same idea for the corners of my La Scalas - something to soften the 90* interior corner of the bass cabinet. I would be interested in hearing about whether anyone has tried that as well. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I always thought that the lower frequency you go, the longer the wave length. If the wavelength is longer than the object in front of it then for all practical purposes, it doesn't "see" that object. This is why you can stand in the room behind a chair and still hear/feel the bass but, if the same chair is between you & the midrange/tweeter, it might attenuate those frequencies. Interesting subject. Will be interesting to see other comments (and find out why I'm off base!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindeville Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) I will say after further listening that there seems to be a lot more bass energy coming out if these horns. On some material its overwhelming. Maybe my rooms being over stimulated now. I don't know. The mid bass is peaky and resonant sounding at some frequency I would say. Standing near the horn you can feel it in the floor more and the corner/ walls are more energized to the touch. Better clarity on lower part of voices and instruments in my opinion. Good resistive quality to kick drum. More punch. Better snare hit and textural details on percussion. The bass lines are very overpowering on some stuff though and I can't say I like the change due to this. I am surprised at the results of this change to say the least. Wish I could measure to see what's going on here. Maybe just made these peaky at some frequencies? Maybe the right deflector here .... Shape, size changes could be a win. Maybe it just screws the design. Interesting none the less. Edited September 21, 2015 by vindeville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindeville Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Excuse my rather rough atempt to describe what my ears tell me in my prior posts. I just am trying to relay the significant change i hear in some way. I re read my posts and wanted to clarify my attempt to describe things. Its just my opinion of course and I do respect the design as it is but am curious to try things just the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I TRIDE IT LONG AGO,, NOT ORIGIONAL,,, NO DIFFERENCE,,,YOUR JUST IMAGINING THINGS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindeville Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) No, I don't believe im imagining things but thanks Zako for your input. Edited September 10, 2015 by vindeville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) IF YOU WALKED AROUND THE ROOM YOU WOULD FIND THE STANDING WAVES,, VERY LONG WAVES,, JUST UNPLUG THE MID AND TWEET,,,AND LISTEN.. Edited September 10, 2015 by ZAKO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindeville Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 Plan on making some shallower reflectors this weekend and will share impressions after some listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 ITS not a good reflector at those frequincies,, ,,,Done that,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 If the wavelength is longer than the object in front of it then for all practical purposes, it doesn't "see" that object. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindeville Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) From what I understand contours and shapes in a bass horn matter. All I can say is what I've done changed the sound in some ways in my room that I've tried to describe because I think it was interesting.My wife also hears a significant change and dislikes it. It may have changed reflections back into that section of the horn which is what my thoughts were to begin with. Maybe this changes resistance in the horn. John, your notch filter is needed more than ever with this change I would guess.also i have the Crites cast woofers in these with very good sealing to the corners and very solid corners by the way. ZAKO I understand your point of view and thank you. Edited September 21, 2015 by vindeville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindeville Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 I'll add im not saying i just thought this up. A Huygen reflector in this area has been discussed here before but I have never read where anyone had tried it. I know it was present in older khorns prior to a driver change at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 THE Huygen reflector was a failed attempt....... Like I said before disconnect the midrange horn and tweeter and listen,,,Your comment about back reflection into the horn will not change anything,,At those frequencies you wont hear it,,, What makes you think your findings are valid compaired to Paul W Klipsch ???... I turned over 155 pages by PWK and George Ashworth on Scientific studies on that Bass Bin.... To Klipsch Co. All that was done,,, Your findings are about as valid as the PWK B.S. button. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spezjag Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Hey Zako - the guy is trying to report his findings on an experiment. He's candidly explaining what he did, and what the results were. Quit being a troll. And turn off the caps lock. Edited September 13, 2015 by spezjag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I.LL RESPOND AS I SEE FIT... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 These findings have been done before,,Fifty years ago,,, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drboar Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I did some measurements on adding reflectors on "Kuben" a vintage horn similar to the La Scala. 1. Bisecting reflector= minor changes 2. Reflectors at the corners= +12 dB above 1500 Hz. 3: Both bisecting reflector and corner reflectors =Back to minor changes. I also discovered that the results were inconsistent between different drivers. So the result you get with your corners and driver may not be the same as other drivers or corners. Some mesurements would be nice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Its possible by adding a stiffener you stopped the tailboard from vibrating,, They can become weak,,, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindeville Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) I wish I had the means to measure things but I do not. I listened to a lot of different material all day yesterday. I did not try a different shaped reflector as I felt I needed listen more first. I always had a small amount of damping material added to the woofer chamber in my horns. I added some more behind the driver because I felt the peakiness may be related to this. It did improve things and remove a degree of mid bass exaggeration. Overall to sum up overall bass is punchier, louder and less tubby but parts in bass lines are peaky on some material. Vocals, piano, guitar sound cleaner and more accurate to me. Enough of what I hear, I do not know what transpired 50 years ago at Klipsh and I have great respect for Paul. I am sure he tested and tried things relentlessly. Somehow the poor k400 midrange horn survived for many years untouched so I'm gonna say some things were compromised for whatever reason. That is a bad sounding horn no matter who says its not. My home built 300hz tractrix with b&c dcm50 drivers are light years better. As brilliant as Paul was khorns are flawed as built but wonderful even with those flaws and compromises. Bring them to the next level and listen to live musicians in your home, they are that good in my opinion. Lastly I certainly understand standing waves in my room and have them... Not my first rodeo. And I have listened with mids n tweets unhooked for several reasons. Also what I think is a significant difference in sound may me nothing to someone else, although I feel this added reflector would be clearly audible to most. If its a fail or not is needs to be determined yet for me. I think not though. I appreciate the feedback and sharing this with the people here that care to read this with interest. zako yes, maybe stiffen the tail board has something to do with it. I don't know. Edited September 13, 2015 by vindeville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.