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USB Regen...


SWL

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I would expect that to increase.....because from what I've been reading (hundreds of reviews) that it is system dependent.....or DAC dependent?

 

I'm using mine with a cheap FiiO D-3 and although I was impressed with the Fiio before I got the Regen....the Regen made a marked improvement in several aspects in my system. The FiiO D-3 bested DACs I've had in my system that were in the $350-$550 range. No joke...and again I would suspect it is system dependent and different ears and opinions will vary.

 

I've got a little over 100 hours run through mine and break-in DOES matter.

 

I'm wondering how a cheap DAC mated with the Regen would compare to a more expensive DAC without it. Also, do the more expensive, well regarded DACs have similar technology built into them?

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  • 3 weeks later...

I asked  Alex Crespi of UpTone Audio and he assured me it would help even a high end DAC.  It wasn't too expensive and I was quite pleased with the results with the Bel Canto 3.7 DAC (upgraded from 3.5).  Actually, I was a little irritated that an inexpensive device could make such a difference.   I liked it enough that I bought another for a 2nd system that has a Grant Fidelity DAC but I haven't used it yet to hear if there seems to be less or more improvement.

How long before this type of technology is built into most DACS or are there some limitations that would not allow that to some extent?  More of a question for the manufacturers I guess.  

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Actually, I was a little irritated that an inexpensive device could make such a difference.

 

Thanks guys. Yeah, I'm really impressed at what the relatively inexpensive Regen, a very inexpensive FiiO DAC and digital equalization has done for my system.

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bel canto makes/has made for years, a similar device.

 

it's basically a re-clocker with galvanic isolation.

 Heh heh... are you referring to the REFlink?  Yes, I have the REGEN plugged into the Bel Canto REFLink USB converter which connects to the DAC via ST fiber.

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UPTONE SAY

 

"The USB REGEN takes the digital audio stream from your computer or other music streaming device, and generates a completely new USB data signal to feed to your DAC.  It accomplishes this by combining a carefully chosen USB hub chip with an ultra low-noise regulator and low-jitter clock.  Importantly, it does so with ideal impedance matching—right at the input of your DAC."

 

Isn't the presumption therefore, that without the USB REGEN, errors occur in transmitting data? (Impedance on USB is standardized at 45 ohms. Can't imagine a DAC designer who don't know that!)

 

I find that very hard to believe. Otherwise, maybe I would need a regen in front of my USB disc drives? NOT!

 

I just don't understand this claim. 

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Yup..........and if you buy a DAC with a respectable clocking system like Benchmark or Belcanto, you should not need a toy like this.

What would be the average cost of one of these DACS with a "respectable clocking system"? I did a search....and maybe I didn't look hard enough but these DACS seems very high in cost.

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I like the idea, and have  been looking at two other approaches:

 

Gustard U12, USB to SPDIF,toslink, etc.  which does the same thing.

 

But the other is the USB jitterbug.  This does not do what the device in this thread is doing, but looks to be very effective in cleaning up digital connect problems with USB.  About 50 bucks, too.

 

Anyone use one of those?  I just got two and will try them out when the rest of the gear I ordered arrives shortly.

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More comments from Mark McGowan of PS Audio:

http://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/a-baffling-hobby/

and yesterday's comments:

http://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/when-it-comes-to/

 

Quotes from Ted Smith 

"The Regen is trying to generate a USB signal that's clean enough that the DAC's USB PHY (the PHYsical layer, the part that drives and receives the signals over the wire) doesn't have to "work as hard" and hence doesn't add as much noise to the power supply.  To go at higher and higher speeds it takes more signal conditioning.  These days many PHYs dynamically change their parameters to better send and receive signals and using those features can use significant current.  The Regen tries to take on the work (with the resultant changing current draws and resultant noise) on the input side so the DAC's PHY doesn't have to and then the Regen sends a much more consistent quality signal so that the DAC doesn't make noise in itself trying to accommodate a signal that's changing quality.

Like jitter it's another way that a relatively little known effect can end up being manifest noise."

"...People don't understand the many forms of interference/noise.  Jitter is but one of them.  Ground loops are often a worse problem, let alone radiation both transmitting and receiving from interconnects (especially digital interconnects), power cords, etc.

The experiment of using the same source with multiple cables installed between it and the DS [PS Audio DirectStream DAC] and merely switching inputs shows that when the other cable factors, ground loops, radiation, etc. are the same that the DS sounds essentially the same whether you are using I2S, S/PDIF, TOSLink, etc.

You really don't know what your system is capable of until you've spent some serious time on the basics, e.g. cleaning up the grounding, having firm earth grounding, breaking ground loops or at least using balanced connections, etc. when you use shielding, making sure it's connected (or not connected) correctly at each end, paying attention to how you dress your cables (a hint: DONT make things look clean especially with wire ties conduits, etc.)

I think many people have more dollars than sense in that they spend money on things with marginal returns rather than on time, experimentation and/or education which can help for little money.

Back to the Regen, it's based on good technical ground and well designed and cheaper than many other USBs tweaks that people try.  But there is still plenty of room for improvement in USB, networked audio, etc."

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Yup..........and if you buy a DAC with a respectable clocking system like Benchmark or Belcanto, you should not need a toy like this.

What would be the average cost of one of these DACS with a "respectable clocking system"? I did a search....and maybe I didn't look hard enough but these DACS seems very high in cost.

 

 

I wasn't referring to cost, I was referring to quality of clocking design.  I have had 2 Benchmarks and they are bulletproof.  They handle everything I've thrown at them with excellent results.  I would never think of inserting something in between my PC and DAC.

 

Forum member JWC was at my house a couple of weeks ago and we listened exclusively to my PC based music server with USB delivery to DAC-2 and it was every bit as good as any other source I have.

 

If you want to read about a very respectable clocking system (and the weaknesses of other types) go to the Benchmark media systems website and read about DAC-1 and DAC2 clocking in the manuals.  It takes up significant space in the manual as Benchmark has devoted huge emphasis on its independent clocking system.  They also provide clear proof of performance at the back of the manuals with measurements/graphs, etc.

 

You can also see the prices.  Around $2K  I will buy DAC-3 when it comes out.

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I wasn't referring to cost, I was referring to quality of clocking design.

 

For those that cost is an issue, the Regen combined with an inexpensive DAC has proven to be effective.

 

I don't doubt that the $2000.00 DACs with similar/better technology built into them are superior in performance.....they sure as hell better be.

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