Jim Naseum Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Does an "art lover" have to have a Rembrandt on his wall, or could he have a "Jones" painted by his neighbor? Or perhaps just a print from Virginia Mayer? Or would just books on art suffice? I'm not getting the labeling thing here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Does an "art lover" have to have a Rembrandt on his wall? or could he have a "Jones" painted by his neighbor? Or perhaps just a print from Virginia Mayer? Or would just books on art suffice? I'm not getting the labeling thing here. no he does not, but an art lover has the ability to go to a museum to enjoy others collections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Rap > Circus Calliope I'm calling BS on this one! The Calliope is pure awesomeness in engineering. The engineering in Rap music is pure non existent, it's more like assembly or collation than engineering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) There are a bunch of people on the forum who would brush their records and post about the sound but spend little time listening, because they could not enjoy it unless every thing is/was perfect. A fetish if you will. I love music. Sure great systems help. I saw Little Feat last weekend, good jam band. Also went to a bar that had a good cover band. I enjoyed them both (had ear plugs as my common practice). I listen to music under non optimal conditions and still enjoy it. To me it is not about analysis of how the music "sounds" quality wise. Edited September 16, 2015 by jacksonbart 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 A fetish if you will. Audiophiles seem to jack off over equipment and call pretty pictures of nice amps or glowing tubes "amp porn." That about sums up the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 They should be more accurately called equipment heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Does it mean they don't love music? HotRod builders don't "love driving?" Still can't figure out what the issue is here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Rap > Circus Calliope I'm calling BS on this one! The Calliope is pure awesomeness in engineering. The engineering in Rap music is pure non existent, it's more like assembly or collation than engineering. Thanks, Schu. But I want to point out that I find it simply wrong to criticize ANY musical form that has adherents even in jest unless you really know the person you are addressing. Yes, I am guilty of joking about Thebes and Parliament...but I think it's taken as in fun as Thebes and I go back a while. I've stated in the past that my lack of appreciation for a given genre is more likely due to simply not being ready for it than any issues with the genre itself. Still don't care for Schoernberg...but a lot smarter people than me find value there so I shall not declare him a waste of time. And that goes for rap or any other genre I really don't fully understand. Humans listen to these things so there must be something there. For me to make a judgment that there is nothing there gets a bit more arrogant than a boy from Texarkana should aspire to. JMHO. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Speaking of calliopes, I've never heard one for real but have imagined what it must sound like for a showboat to be playing one as it approached a landing. Must have been a grand thing! Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) At another AES meeting we learned about how the film industry usually has more than 20 down mixes of the same content, and some films may have more than 100. They are all intended to address the realities of the various playback chains. Radio, car audio, cell phones, portable media devices - algorithm after algorithm of various intentionally injected non-linearities to improve the 90th percentile listening experience. Maybe they covered this at the AES meeting: is there an indication somewhere on Blu-ray movie discs or packages (in secret code????) that tells you whether they have "optimised" the sound for "the home" in their down mix (e.g., by rolling off the highs), or they are leaving that to the consumer? Do some studios usually (or always) create this special mix, while other studios do not? I run many movies at Audyssey Reference, with its -2 dB at 10K, falling to -6 dB at 20K, as well as having a 2 dB dip at approx 2k, but some movies sound dull and lifeless and "airless" at that setting (e.g., The Walker, and several more), so I switch over to Audyssey FLAT, and those particular films usually sound better. In otherwords, is there a way to know in advance to avoid "double compensating" or rolling off twice, other than doing so by ear, and having to change the setting part way into the film? Edited September 16, 2015 by garyrc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 IMO the music is more important than the medium. I would much rather listen to an excellent recoding of an excellent performance on a clock radio than listen to an excellent recording of a poor performance on the best system in the world. To most people, I qualify as an audiophile, due to the attention I pay to the hardware. In the strictest sense of the definition I am someone who loves things audio related, therefore I am an audiophile. Nonetheless, I consider myself first a music lover. The thrill to me is to get the most from the least, which I accomplish via DIY. I have no desire to spend thousands on hardware that looks like art, irrespective of how good it sounds. My modest DiY single drivers, tapped horn subs and chip amps provide a level of reproduction that astounds my friends and more than meets my needs. I would rather spend money on music than sexy hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 My modest DiY single drivers any pictures? You know, speaker porn!? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Does it mean they don't love music? HotRod builders don't "love driving?" Still can't figure out what the issue is here. The distinction is definitional. Audiophile is defined as a person who is especially interested in high fidelity sound reproduction. A music lover is a person who loves music either and/or through performing or listening, or even through the study of its history. The former would be very interested in whether a fart is faithfully reproduced through a playback system. The latter would not consider the fart to be relevant to most if any music. Notice the emphasis on sound reproduction in the case of the former, and the greater variety of experience in the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindeville Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I have many recordings that don't technically sound "great" but are still great recordings that capture something special. Even those though must have a degree of sound quality that in some way is engaging. Just can't listen to anything that has no redeeming sound qualities no matter the genre. Love J Geils but never listen cause recordings suck to me. chili peppers are unlistenable to me but songs are good. I find most any Blues recording totally engaging. Its my favorite kind of music but I can't listen to very old thin brittle sounding stuff, those are more like historical statements than anything worth hearing. Overly slick recording usually fall short for me too. I'm overstating but point is there are a lot of variables for us all I think the make a recording good. In my opinion Rap has no melody and is not music. Its mostly vulgar, posturing spoken word. A song with a rap within it does work out sometimes though I think. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 The former would be very interested in whether a fart is faithfully reproduced through a playback system. Well said. I mentioned all the sound effects records that proliferated in the early days of stereo and hifi. Passing steam engines were particularly big things. The music was secondary to the equipment. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 One "giant" album I always thought sounded awful was Fleetwood Mac "Rumors." Maybe it was just the copy I had and probably still do...but it sounded nasty. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 OK I'll play. Going to spin a second or fifth hand basic pressing now. I'll get back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 First of all, it is a second hand copy, LOL, from the collection of a former Miss TCU. Second hand news does sound rather tinny. Dreams has a pronounced lacking of mid range. Never going back again isn't too bad Don't Stop is just as tinny as Second Hand News (crappy song anyway) Go Your Own Way sounds muffled. Songbird the piano lacks presence. But McVie's voice is lovely as always. The Chain so far is best song sound wise but is also probably the best song on the lp anyway. You Make Lovin Fun has the same harshness as the rest. It seems to have been recorded for radio airplay. I Don't Want to Know is also in character with the rest. Oh Daddy once again the song is saved by Christine's voice. Gold Dust Woman what a classic. Dave you are right at least from my recording as well. A great lp except for Don't Stop but the recording severely lacks what had to be the real sound of the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Klipsch Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Always music first, equipment second. If a good song is playing on the elevator I will listen to it. FM has died here in Houston so there is only Sunday morning when the blues comes on the local Pacifica station. Thank goodness for the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) IIRC. this entire album (Rumours by Fleetwood Mac, first released in 1977) is mastered approximately 9-12 dB too hot at 8 kHz and linearly tapering off down to about 1 kHz (among other "mastering enhancements", except for Go Your Own Way, which was attenuated on the top end). The only real mistake is "The Chain" which was clearly mixed with the voices too attenuated relative to the surrounding instrumentation. This is actually a difficult album to master well due to the exposed nature of the instrumentation and the dynamic range retained. It is clear that the album was recorded in multitrack - you can hear it in each voice/instrument. Once the tracks are remastered, this is a very good sounding album...the version that I have (1990) has a corrected DR Database rating of 15 (i.e., a crest factor of about 15 dB average for all tracks across the album)--which is spectacular for a popular album of that time and genre. It's a pleasure to listen to after careful remastering, IMO-retaining much of the true dynamics of the instruments without huge amounts of compression used. It was simply mastered way too hot and with some low bass attenuation for those "east coast sound" loudspeakers of the 1970s. I hate to see such an album knocked on the forum due to lack of information about its poor mastering but relatively good recording and mixing. Chris Edited September 17, 2015 by Chris A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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