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Forte II sound harsh


Kenneky

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I just bought some oiled oak forte II's vintage 1993. I have connected them to a marantz av receiver and a Yamaha integrated amp with a Sony blue ray player as source. I have connected a pair of RSL cg 6.2 to channel B for an A/B comparison. The forte's sound harsh, not as musical and pleasing in the midst and highs but good base. About 6 ft apart 1 ft from back wall toed in at me from about 10 ft away. Any feedback on what to do would be helpful. Do they need new replacement components for the crossovers? I don't want to mod them from stock because I think they should sound great as designed without modifying but I can see where the values and quality of the original componts have shifted, maybe even loosened? Thanx.

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move them a little wider to equal your distance and move them out to about 18 inches from the rear walls. Also try toeing them out a little if they are harsh.

 

I just picked up a set of Forte II myself and they sound crisp and clear.

 

Room acoustics will play into the sound. What room treatments if any do you have?

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Bob Crites, a member of this forum is the go to person for new XO.  The Forte and Forte II are sensitive to placement to get the Hi's and Lo's balanced.  18 inches from the back wall and 2 ft. from the side wall.  Also, you may need to better EQ the speakers due to the room.  My Forte's only required positioning to sound great.

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Welcome to the forum, K. 

 

I love my Forte II and their little brother Quartet.  I've never found them harsh.

 

Obviously you purchased these used.  So I'm wondering if there is something wrong with them.  A burned out driver might be involved but that should not make them sound too harsh, but you never know about perceptions, entirely.

 

Let me suggest some testing.  Put them next to each other and using a balance control, if you have one, pan from side to side and listen to determine if they both sound the same.  This might show up a problem with one or the other.  It is possible, but a little unlikely, that both have the same problem.  You never know.

 

I'll also suggest testing the woofers by "feel."  You'll have to take off the front grill.  The grills are attached with magnets.  You can use a butter knife or smooth kitchen knife to pry off the grill.  It should pop off. You don't want to ding the veneer but a smooth knife should not be a problem.  I know you don't want to mess up your new babies but common sense will guide you.

 

Then take a look at the woofer.  Are there any cuts or holes? 

 

Use your hand with spread fingers to gently push in on the woofer. With a little force it should move 1/4 inch or so without binding.  A partially burned out voice coil can cause binding. This would indicate a problem and will cause harshness and lack of bass.  (I've found that when the bass in one speaker stops working, it is difficult to detect in "stereo.")

 

You should also check the big passive woofer in the back.  Any holes?

 

While you are pushing in on the front woofer, check to see that the rear passive moves out when you press in on the front woofer.  This may require a bit of contortionist position.  Putting the units on a table may help.  Essentially, the cabinet is a sealed box.  You are determining whether there is a good air seal and that the woofer (front) and passive (rear) are free from punctures.  And also that the box is free of leaks.

 

While you're looking at the back passive, you may notice a ring around it of cardboard.  Sometimes this comes loose and buzzes. 

 

Now that the grill is off, you should check to determine that the mid horn (the big one) and the tweeter (the little one above it) are working.  Play some music into one box at a time.  Use a cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels to improvise a stethoscope.  (BTW I don't know why they are called stethoscopes when we are not using them to see.)  Ear at one end and the other up against the mid horn and tweeter, and determine whether sound is coming out of the respective horns.

 

The mid carries a lot of the musical information.  The tweeter is just reproducing the upper octave or so and will sound tinny.

 

By means of the above, you've give you new babies a good examination, without taking them apart.

 

Let us know what you find. 

 

The Forte II are gems.  But sometimes people sell them (and any speaker) because they have been subjected to abuse and damaged.  (It can happen.  A young relative of mine presented me with some small Speaker-Labs which just stopped working for no good reason.  My autopsy on them showed toasted voice coils. I'd say they were at a rocking good party. Smile.)

 

WMcD

Edited by William F. Gil McDermott
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I am in the same situation. I purchased some Forte II's about 3 weeks ago and they seem very harsh to me also.. I get listening fatigue quick. I have to turn the treble almost all the way down on my amp to get them to be listenable. . I wanted to do the Crites upgrades but I am worried that it would get worse.. I have never had another pair speakers that were as harsh.. almost seems like the tweeter is crossed too low or something..

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It is interesting that Bossman comes in with the same complaint. 

 

In my experience, and that of others I daresay, the Forte II are the most well balanced speakers in creation.  The tractrix midrange is spooky good, not harsh.

 

Sometimes members of the faithful say that Klipsch speakers are so good that they show up problems in the program material and, also, that new listeners have never heard good midrange.  But that is a pony trotted out too often.

 

I can only suggest to Bossman that he run the same tests. 

 

FWIW, I like Telarc recording and believe they are excellent for testing any speaker or hi-fi system.

 

WMcD

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William F. Gil McDermott, I did the tests above and all is good.. it seems like the harshness is in the tweeter. The midrange and bass sound very nice. I have experimented with applying masking tape over the tweeter, and then experimented with different sizes of masking tape.. this seems to help tame the harshness, but obviously not right.. without the tape, the " S " sound is exaggerated especially with female dialogue and male voice also.. Is it possible a flaw in the crossover point of the tweeter, maybe set to low?

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Thanx for the info WMcD. I'll try everything you've listed and follow up but it might not be until this weekend. It may lead to something faulty in a driver or crossover component. I would go as far as changing a faulty component out but I will not buy into believing that the crossover needs MODIFIED from factory original values. That changes the design and I can't believe that Klipsch would not have the properly educated and experienced engineers and equipment to properly design and test these speakers. IMHO. I'll let you know and thanx again everybody.

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If you look at the tweeter driver what color is the diaphragm, silver?  Or a dark brown, almost black?  If silver they are titanium, if not they are phenolic.  I have owned mine since 1992, and everyone who hears them wants to know where to get a pair.  As others stated one of Klipsch's true "Gems". 

 

Best regards,

John

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I will not buy into believing that the crossover needs MODIFIED from factory original values. That changes the design and I can't believe that Klipsch would not have the properly educated and experienced engineers and equipment to properly design and test these speakers.

 

Nobody has suggested such a thing, at least not yet.  The only specific mention was for Crites networks, which are identical to stock networks but with better parts, not a deviation or re-engineering of the speaker. Keep in mind that the oem caps were cheapies when they were new, and at the ripe age of 23 years or so may not be doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing. 

 

 If I were you I would listen to them as is, and continue to try different placement to tune the bass.  Try them deep in the corners, toed in heavily, and see if that doesn't help compensate the harsh top end you're experiencing.

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If, after running all the speaker health-checks and room placement suggestions mentioned above, your treble is still harsh, and playing around with masking tape (or open cell foam or ping-pong balls) seems to tame it, you could be sensitive to sibilance.  I fall into this camp.  Pronounced S/SH's in vocals are annoying to me and to most people I think based on all the recording techniques designed to minimize this effect.

 

Bad sources and recordings also don't help.  But I find with my H3's and LS'2 that I need to digitally EQ adjust the 6.5Khz-7.5Khz range down by about -2db.  If you can get iTunes hooked up to your system, go to the iTunes Store and search for "audio test tones."  There's an album of test tones by Audiolab - I consistently find the 6-8K tones louder than the rest in my room.

 

You can also download Alan Shaw's (Harbeth speakers) sibilance test recording.  The one thing more annoying than sibilance is two British guys discussing it.  Your wife will think you lost your mind.  Look at post #16 here.

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I had the same problem with KLF-30's and really wanted to like them.  Sometimes it's just a matter of preference in sound.  It's kind of hard for a lot of people to go changing every piece of equipment they own, rearrange a room, do acoustical treatments, etc, etc, etc., when all they're looking for is good sound to their ears.  Maybe it's the receiver...sure.  I wouldn't use an A/V receiver for powering something like that but that's me.  Maybe it's the type of music he's listening to.  We haven't heard what was being played that I recall.  Some stuff does sound awful on horns and is more forgiving on domes/cones.  I personally don't buy a pair of speakers and then change every single thing in the signal path and home decor to make them sound better.  If they don't cur it with what's there (no synergy), they go on their merry way.  But that's just me and my $0.02.

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Forte's and probably a lot of Klipsch speakers are very sensitive to equipment matching and room acoustics. I brought a pair of refurbished Chorus I's to my brothers house a few years back thinking he'd be really happy with them as I thought they sounded great in my room. His room is very large and has really high, vaulted ceilings with pine boards instead of sheetrock and a hard wood floor. The speakers sounded extremely screechy and annoying and only got worse as the volume went up. I ended up taking the speakers back home with me it was so bad.

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I m using a NAD 3020 amplifier that sounded good with many other Klipsch speakers that I have owned including CWII, Heresy's, KG4's, RF-3's, and a few others.. These Forte II's are in the same position the others were in.. I've never had this problem with the others.. I listen to vinyl, CD's, MP3's, and my flat screen with an external DAC. Maybe these Forte II's are just revealing all the flaws in the recordings and broadcastings, but I find it hard to believe since my other speakers sounded nice. These speakers are on the verge of sounding very nice, if it weren't for the harsh tweeter.. the bass and mids are very nice..

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