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Klipsch Epic Owners Group


kapsnb01

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Ok thanks moray james!

When you speak about "woofer basket struts", you mean like on the photo below?

 

Sorry but my english is not so good ;)

 

Is there a post where I can have information on how to stiffen the cabinet?

 

Thanks again!

woofer_basket_damping.jpg

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Hi François , those CF-3's look great!  I'd like to answer a few of your questions.

 

In this very thread there are a lot of links.  Check them out, there is some really great info.

 

Bracing

Placement:  You have the CF-3's right next to a stove heater.  It will dry out the wood if it is exposed to direct heat.  You might try to place a heat shield between them.  You can see how the paint has blistered behind the stove, you don't want this to happen to your speaker.

20160924_123545.jpg

 

Damping the basket:  This is not a known problem and a solution of damping the basket is not needed.  

 

Different Versions:  In this same thread there are links to discussions about the different versions.  Version 3 is the most different from the Version 1, but Version 3 still sounds fantastic.

 

Best Modifications:  My CF-4's are highly modified, I have done nearly all the changes listed.  I still think the biggest improvement was also the cheapest, and easiest to change back if you don't like it.  You can reach inside the port and pull out the two foam sheets from the lower section.  Put about a pound of fiber-fil (pillow stuffing) in each bottom section, remember do not block the ports.  I found the speaker when stock are a bit nasal when compared to a musical instrument.  This change will make the speakers sound more accurate, ie, a piano sounds like a piano.  This procedure is detailed in the links from this thread.

 

I also recommend using PURE silicon seal to damp the horn (some use Dynamat which also works but is more expensive).  This will help with some harshness that exists in the high frequencies.  That costs about 10 Euro.

 

Capacitors:  Some have changed out the caps, some have not.  I have not.  These caps are not the type that go bad over time, so I would not change them unless you hear something that doesn't sound right.  You will not find much discussion in the links about changing out caps.  You will find some schematics, but I think Version B is the only one listed.

 

Other:  The use of a sub-woofer is highly recommended.  This will round out a very strong sound from bottom to top and will give you a nice chest thump at mid to upper sound levels.

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Thanks wvu80 for all your precious advices ;)

Don't worry about the heater, I know that it's very hot when working (you saw the wall!). Il will build a thermic shield just for winter.

 

I'm currently damping the horn (ie photos).

I will carrefully read all your post!

The woofer on rev3 is not as good than the one on rev1 and rev2 ("This change included new woofers with lighter cones (K-1030-KN on CF-3)")?

 

++

20161003_210912.jpg

20161003_211300.jpg

20161003_220632.jpg

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7 hours ago, Francois said:

Ok thanks moray james!

When you speak about "woofer basket struts", you mean like on the photo below?

 

Sorry but my english is not so good ;)

 

Is there a post where I can have information on how to stiffen the cabinet?

 

Thanks again!

woofer_basket_damping.jpg

yes those are the struts which I was referring to (I place a layer of dynamat on the inside and the outside of the struts. I also add a layer of F-11 Acoustical Felt around each strut held in place with water based contact). You can also place a layer of dynamat on the back of the magnet and a layer on each side of the terminal tab they tens to rig like bells. I am sure if you search the Current Cf users thread you will find lots of info.

Edited by moray james
additional inf
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Thanks Moray James!

 

I found this on audiokarma. Interesting:

 

Quote

My neighbor worked for klipsch for 11 yrs and it was during the time when they made the epic line, he told me when they turned in the spec sheets to the builders they used the parameters as inside diameters instead of outside. This mistake was not figured out for quite a while and they made speakers for around 8mo or so before they figured it out. He said the speakers sounded ok but sonic testing did not show the same data as the prototypes. When they figured it out they had released thousands of them as well as built and tooled for many more, so they had to come up with a fix, they lengthened the ports and I think he said they used different woofers but I am not sure about the woofers? He only told me of the one change so there was 2 series. He said if you stand about 4 ft in front of the speaker and look down at the ports if you can see the end of the ports then it is an early version. He said the running joke around klipsch of the CF line was the nickname complete failure line because of the CF, even though he said the first series didn't sound that bad he told me to look for the updated speakers when I bought them. I have an updated pair of CF4's and my friend has the early CF3's and both speakers can shake our houses. These are mot my first or even second choice when listening to classical, jazz, or anything else besides rock/rap and even though my silver sevens or my 300w Dukane mono tube amps or my bogen mo200's would power these fine I never run my tube gear to these they just will not warm them up enough. I use nothing else during parties or when listening to rock/rap then the epics they Truly are brutally loud... I have hooked up many of my amps to them over the years even my silver 9t's but I like the most my TA-N99ES my Dukane 416 or my carver TFM4.0.

 

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I saw that you are all remplacing the original compression by Electro voice DH 1506. I'm looking for it on Ebay.

Can you explain the gain with this huge compression driver?

Do I have to reinforce the original horn to support this compression (much heavier than the original)?

 

Thanks!

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40 minutes ago, Francois said:

I saw that you are all remplacing the original compression by Electro voice DH 1506. I'm looking for it on Ebay.

Can you explain the gain with this huge compression driver?

Do I have to reinforce the original horn to support this compression (much heavier than the original)?

 

Thanks!

 

There is a pair of brand new DH 1506 from Portugal somebody has been trying to sell for about a year, and he wants $575 for the pair and about $200 shipping to the US.  That is way too much.  They do not come to market in the US very often but I would expect them to cost $100 each, shipped.

 

If you do use the DH 1506 they weigh about 12 pounds each and you will need to add a shelf for them sit on.  It's easy to do, I used a 1x2 piece of wood and the driver sat on a piece of hard rubber to prevent vibration.

 

The stock K-63 weighs about 4 pounds and uses a Neodymium magnet.  Years ago when there were replacement units they sold for about $600-700.  Not cheap.

EV DH1505 and K-63  IMG_4280.JPGEV DH1505 and K-63 IMG_4285.JPG

 

 

I changed to the 1506 based on some recommendations here.  I would say there is NOT that much improvement, to my ears.  The stock K-63's are really good.

 

I changed to the 1506 more for the fun of the do it yourself experience.  I made one change at a time and I listened for differences, and I listened over a period of time.  I would say my modified CF-4's sound better than stock and that is due to a lot of little changes rather than one big one.

 

Some recent discussion that is NOT in our links was from Bob Crites, who makes and sells aftermarket cross overs for various Klipsch speakers.  His opinion was that the crossover for the CF-4 (or CF-3) was very highly matched to the K-63.  He suggested that a change to the 1506 would sound best with a cross over designed for that driver.

 

I would not refute Bob's opinion, he is an expert working with crossovers and his opinions are highly respected.  That being said, to my ears a straight swap from K-63 to the 1506 sounded almost exactly the same, with the 1506 sounding slightly better, maybe a little smoother in the mid range.

 

My suggestion to you is to listen to your CF-3's for a month or more and see how they sound to YOUR years, with YOUR amplifier in YOUR living room.  Then if there are things you hear that you don't like, make your mods.  I would be happy to help you choose and make your changes.

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This is what the shelf looks like that I built for the driver, and you can see the little bit of fiber-fil I used, near the bottom of the enclosure.  You can see the crossover, which is built as a single unit with the binding posts on the outside.

 

IMG_4345.JPG

 

Your wires will be black and red which were used for the Version 3 crossover.

IMG_4383.JPG

CF-3 XO med res IMG_4384.JPG

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Great wvu80!

The filter on your photo is from a CF-3 rev3?

 

Today I finished damping the horn. Then I tried to dismount one woofer but it seems to be glued on the cabinet. Is it the case? I unscrewed the 4 screws but I can't remove the woofer.

I have K-1030 woofer so no doubt concerning my revision: black horn, small port tubes, colored wires and K-1030 mean rev3.

 

thanks again for your help!

 

horn.jpg

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Agree with Moray ^^^.  That woofer will pop out, there is no glue.  You might end up tearing the paper gasket, but a new one can easily be cut from the same gasket material used for car engines.

+++

 

Yes, those photos are from a CF-3 crossover, revision 3.  I have an extra one I was saving to make a centre speaker if I ever got all the components.

+++

 

Francois that is a good looking job on damping the horn!  :)  That will have the effect of bringing the high frequency resonance (HF) down slightly.  You don't want to damp everything because that makes the sound dull and lifeless.

 

You might try my suggestion of taking out the bottom foam and putting in a little fiber-fil.  It works great on making the sound of musical instruments very accurate and in my opinion, gets rid of the slight harshness that can be heard in the HF.  If you don't like the sound, it is easy to put back to stock.

 

What music do you like?  If you get a chance, please post a Youtube video if you have an example.  I'd like to try some of the music to which you are listening.

 

After your modifications, do some more listening.  I think you will like what you hear.

+++

 

It's hard to see in the bottom part after my post, but my name is Dave or David.  Or wvu80.  Use whichever you like, it's all good.  B)

 

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Thank you all!

Concerning music, I love Jazz (classical or modern) and rock from 70's, 80's. I really appreciate music with little instruments and a beautiful human voice.

I also like groups like "Florence and the machine", "Kings of leon", "Angus and Julia Stone", "Hozier", "London Grammar", "Led Zepp", "BB King", "The black keys", "Zaze" or "Christine and the queens"....

In fact I love everything except rap.... :D

 

 

Dave I will try the fiber-fil. I just need to buy some ;)

 

 

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Can't stop damping :D

 

Bob Crites can remake my crossover with better capacitors but I have to think if I want to take the risk of shipping my filter...

I can do it by my own if I really want but is there a big improvement after that? I also have to carefully choose my caps because it can be better or worse...

 

++

CD63_2.jpg

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Quote

The Epic series did not sell very well, and was not well received by the Klipsch dealers.
It did not have that typical Klipsch sound {Thank God}, and was not as efficient as other Klipsch speakers.
Being a quasi D'Appolito type array meant you had to sit down to really hear it, unlike the other Klipsch speakers that sounded "good" standing up.
As a result of the dealers slow sales of the Epic Series, Klipsch Marketing Salesmen demanded a re design of the speaker.
The re design was called series 2, and this is what they did to the speakers.
Port tuning was raised by using 3 inch ports instead of the originals 6 inch ports, and a crossover change was also done.
The Epic series 3 speakers had a lighter woofer for even more efficiency, but with a huge loss of sound quality.

Source: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/26/264992.html

I really would like to ear the Serie 1!

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Ok so the first woofer is finish, what do you think? Did I forgot something?

 

Speaker_Damping_1.jpg

Speaker_Damping_2.jpg

 

As you said, the speaker wasn't glued but  there was a kind of foam around it that I damaged during disassembly. I do not think it's serious but it must certainly be replaced to get it right? 

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The work looks outstanding!  My concern is that you will make the speaker sound dull by OVER-damping.  One reason people like the CF-3 is because the sound is lively and real sounding.  You don't want to lose that characteristic sound which is great especially for jazz.

 

When I got my CF-4's I listened to them first, and heard some specific things I wanted to deal with.  There was a high frequency harshness that was there all the time, and I thought the speakers did not sound natural, they were a little bit nasal sounding.  I thought they were about 1/3rd octave too high.  The modifications I did fixed that.

 

I suggest you make changes one at a time.  Put one modified speaker back together and compare the sound to the sound of the unmodified stock speaker.

 

See what sounds good to you, and proceed from there.

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you are mistaking structural mechanical resonance damping with acoustical damping the two are not the same at all you are confused. Cabinet vibration horn vibration basket vibrations (just some of the unwanted structural vibrations in a loudspeaker) are all mechanical (generating acoustical output) and they are all distortions that you do not want to hear ever.

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