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Yea EpicKlipshFan,i totally understand everything you are saying, im well aware of distortion killing a speaker, i don't do distortion lol, i like to think i have a good ear for listening to audio, i mostly listen to music dvd's, some are good some aren't and some are very well recorded, some sound excellent at only half volume and is extremely loud, some i can turn the volume up close to wide open to get the same effect, all due to how it is recorded of coarse, but i don't get distortion even when it's at level, but it is really working the amp, that's usually when the overload prevention happens, I've always been a Sony fan, i think for the money they make pretty good stuff, i can't afford the high dollar stuff that some have, but let me tell you this little reciever loves these speakers! I am a big believer in an EQ, every recording is different and it really shows with these cf4's, i tweak just about everything i am playing, i think that also helps with distortion to some extent, some things i listen to in 2 channel and some surround, i picked up a M.L. 12 inch 500 watt sub of CL a few months ago, my last one was toasted by lightning, wasn't on a protector, i missed it, but man, this sub fills in the bottom seamlessly, glad to hear some still enjoy the vers.3's , like i mentioned, i have never heard the others, but it's hard to imagine anything sounding much better, after all most 25 years i am still in love with them, and i think they sound as good as they ever have, definitely looking for an amp tho, thanks guy's, any opinions are always welcome

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15 hours ago, Truepiclover said:

Yea EpicKlipshFan,i totally understand everything you are saying, im well aware of distortion killing a speaker, i don't do distortion lol, i like to think i have a good ear for listening to audio, i mostly listen to music dvd's, some are good some aren't and some are very well recorded, some sound excellent at only half volume and is extremely loud, some i can turn the volume up close to wide open to get the same effect, all due to how it is recorded of coarse, but i don't get distortion even when it's at level, but it is really working the amp, that's usually when the overload prevention happens, I've always been a Sony fan, i think for the money they make pretty good stuff, i can't afford the high dollar stuff that some have, but let me tell you this little reciever loves these speakers! I am a big believer in an EQ, every recording is different and it really shows with these cf4's, i tweak just about everything i am playing, i think that also helps with distortion to some extent, some definitely looking for an amp tho, thanks guy's, any opinions are always welcome

I would look for an amp that puts out at least 200 watts a side.  What price range?  What state do you live in, perhaps, there is something good on the local Craigslist.

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Hey Shiva, yes im near Kansas city, i look pretty much everyday, hoping to find at least 200 per channel, the only ones affordable are not much more than i already have, there has benn a couple but way outta my price reach, really nice one on there now but it's 2200.00,i can buy something new for that, but i keep looking, just seen a set of black version 3 cf4's in topeka last week fir 950, already gone lol, thanks for the input

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$200, no bids yet ... 220wpc ... https://www.ebay.com/itm/large-heavy-KENWOOD-BASIC-M2A-STEREO-POWER-AMP-AMPLIFIER-A/123902522325?epid=1953338364&hash=item1cd92a73d5:g:hjAAAOSwB3pddxTN

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

One more ... $400 ... https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kenwood-M2A-Power-Amplifier-Fully-Tech-Serviced-working-great-220w-ch-in-8-ohm/113863716728?hash=item1a82ce6f78:g:pbcAAOSwF3ldYDGU

 

OK; reason for listing these ... have one (with a Kenwood Basic C2 pre-amp) on my CF-3's ... these amps are very, very good and way underrated ... haha, therefor still available at reasonable prices :D 

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6 hours ago, Truepiclover said:

Hey Shiva, yes im near Kansas city, i look pretty much everyday, hoping to find at least 200 per channel, the only ones affordable are not much more than i already have, there has benn a couple but way outta my price reach, really nice one on there now but it's 2200.00,i can buy something new for that, but i keep looking, just seen a set of black version 3 cf4's in topeka last week fir 950, already gone lol, thanks for the input

Your local Craigslist is quite bleak at the moment, isn't it.     If you would like to try an amp with all the power you will ever need, look at the Crown XLS 1502.  It is a Class D pro amp with 300 watts at 8ohms.  You can get one on Amazon, new or used and try it out for fun and see what it brings to the party.  

 

https://www.amazon.com/Crown-XLS1502-Two-channel-Power-Amplifier/dp/B011X2HTZC/ref=sxin_2_ac_d_rm?ac_md=0-0-Y3Jvd24geGxzIDE1MDI%3D-ac_d_rm&crid=FMGEDFHD2SIM&keywords=crown+xls+1502&pd_rd_i=B011X2HTZC&pd_rd_r=a2e4d66a-c3be-4226-871e-c1773091b191&pd_rd_w=HqnUj&pd_rd_wg=GYjFF&pf_rd_p=404c4843-2c96-4d0d-a5fe-2b0598693e61&pf_rd_r=ARKXDVRNRT7QEVHZ8AF7&qid=1568243304&s=gateway&sprefix=crown+xls%2Caps%2C306

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1 minute ago, Truepiclover said:

have looked at the crown and other pro stuff, but don't they have different type inputs, like quarter turns or something like it? 

I have a Crown K2 that I use with my KPT-904's ... absolutely awesome. But, it may be a bit too much power for your CF-4's, unless you stay away from max volume :D  The K2 has 1/4 inch and XLR inputs ... used 1/4 inch before, but it broke off inside the amp :(  ... now using a RCA to XLR adapter ($5 online).

 

Using a Kenwood Basic M2 amp (220wpc) with a C2 preamp on my CF-3's.  Pretty sure that's all the power they need ... haha, have had them up to 120dB's :D 

 

Good luck with the search :) 

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2 hours ago, Shiva said:

 If you would like to try an amp with all the power you will ever need, look at the Crown XLS 1502.  It is a Class D pro amp with 300 watts at 8ohms.

How would you use that? I presume the AVR would be the pre-pro into the 1502, but at that point do you use the Crown for both HF and LF?

 

My instinct would be to bi-amp using the 1502 for the LF and the AVR's internal amp for the HF.

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1 hour ago, wvu80 said:

How would you use that? I presume the AVR would be the pre-pro into the 1502, but at that point do you use the Crown for both HF and LF?

 

My instinct would be to bi-amp using the 1502 for the LF and the AVR's internal amp for the HF.

I would just let the Crown power the Epics full range, no bi wire, with AVR as pre. I wouldn’t underestimate the Crowns top end off the bat, without hearing it first, it might surprise.

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On 9/10/2019 at 5:57 PM, Truepiclover said:

Yea EpicKlipshFan,i totally understand everything you are saying, im well aware of distortion killing a speaker, i don't do distortion lol, i like to think i have a good ear for listening to audio, i mostly listen to music dvd's, some are good some aren't and some are very well recorded, some sound excellent at only half volume and is extremely loud, some i can turn the volume up close to wide open to get the same effect, all due to how it is recorded of coarse, but i don't get distortion even when it's at level, but it is really working the amp, that's usually when the overload prevention happens, I've always been a Sony fan, i think for the money they make pretty good stuff, i can't afford the high dollar stuff that some have, but let me tell you this little reciever loves these speakers! I am a big believer in an EQ, every recording is different and it really shows with these cf4's, i tweak just about everything i am playing, i think that also helps with distortion to some extent, some things i listen to in 2 channel and some surround, i picked up a M.L. 12 inch 500 watt sub of CL a few months ago, my last one was toasted by lightning, wasn't on a protector, i missed it, but man, this sub fills in the bottom seamlessly, glad to hear some still enjoy the vers.3's , like i mentioned, i have never heard the others, but it's hard to imagine anything sounding much better, after all most 25 years i am still in love with them, and i think they sound as good as they ever have, definitely looking for an amp tho, thanks guy's, any opinions are always welcome

 

keep in mind, when i say distortion or clipping, you cant really hear that, just like when you say your amp goes into protect but sounds good to you.  any amp can go into clipping & you wont hear it.  so be careful driving power hungry speakers with mediocre receivers... & no amp should ever be ran at full "wide open" power.  they dont make the woofers & drivers for these epics anymore & you will have a heck of a time trying to located them if they blow. 

 

& no offense to you or your sony... but sony receivers are not very good, for about the same price you can get onkyo or yamaha receivers that have much better amplification & usually much better features.  sony ES are decent quality but again for the price there are many other better brands. 

 

for amps, $400-$500 will get you a very good used amp in the 200watt per channel range.  for about $400 you can get a adcom gfa555ii that is an excellent amp & will drive the epics to levels you have never heard before with your receiver, & the adcoms have clipping indicator lights to warn you if the amp is even beginning to approach clipping.  many other brands in that price range too, keep checking your local CL or ebay or put a wanted ad in the garage sale section here. 

 

       

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I find a couple of different amps within about a 3 hours from me on cl, I'm sure either would be a great fit, there is this Adcom for 550.00
(This ADCOM GFA-555 is a rare classic. You will not find many of these for sale since the lucky people who own them, keep them! The design and power is second to none. At 200 watts per channel into 8 ohms, this baby will light up any quality speakers. This is the original Nelson Pass design. It's a HIGH CURRENT two channel amp. Adcom named it their “Great F-ing Amplifier” for a reason. The awesome sound stage and clean audio with super low THD, will blow you away. It will hold its own)

and this Carver

Carver M 1.5T Amplifier rated 350 W/Ch RMS@8 Ohm & 700 W/Ch Dynamic He - $700 -This is THE Carver amplifier everyone who knows desires and and is always hunting for. Pair it up with the notable Carver C1 preamp and you’ll never want / need to upgrade ever again. Because there is nowhere to upgrade unless you want to buy some Mcintosh $50,000 setup. This amp was the direct result of the famous Carver challenge where he used one of his amps and copied a Mark Levinson amp sonically so that even the trained audiophiles at Stereophile magazine couldn’t identify which was which by listening to it. Carvers made some amazing pieces of audio gear over the past 40 years like his 7” cube amps that run 200x2 or 500 x 1 and only weigh 14lbs, or his 11” square sealed True Subwoofer pushing 2700 wpc rms and some of the old Phase Linear gear but this is his best work and one of the best sounding amplifier he ever designed. This is the 2 Channel amplifier made by Carver that everyone wants. Just look on eBay at all the people offering modification, updates, etc for this amp. But, if you are hunting the M-1.5t then you probably already know all of the above and are wondering if you finally found it. Don’t let someone grab it while you are pinching yourself to make sure it’s not a dream. 🙂

 

I think either would be fantastic! 

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On 9/15/2019 at 10:50 AM, Truepiclover said:

I find a couple of different amps within about a 3 hours from me on cl, I'm sure either would be a great fit, there is this Adcom for 550.00
(This ADCOM GFA-555 is a rare classic. You will not find many of these for sale since the lucky people who own them, keep them! The design and power is second to none. At 200 watts per channel into 8 ohms, this baby will light up any quality speakers. This is the original Nelson Pass design. It's a HIGH CURRENT two channel amp. Adcom named it their “Great F-ing Amplifier” for a reason. The awesome sound stage and clean audio with super low THD, will blow you away. It will hold its own)

and this Carver

Carver M 1.5T Amplifier rated 350 W/Ch RMS@8 Ohm & 700 W/Ch Dynamic He - $700 -This is THE Carver amplifier everyone who knows desires and and is always hunting for. Pair it up with the notable Carver C1 preamp and you’ll never want / need to upgrade ever again. Because there is nowhere to upgrade unless you want to buy some Mcintosh $50,000 setup. This amp was the direct result of the famous Carver challenge where he used one of his amps and copied a Mark Levinson amp sonically so that even the trained audiophiles at Stereophile magazine couldn’t identify which was which by listening to it. Carvers made some amazing pieces of audio gear over the past 40 years like his 7” cube amps that run 200x2 or 500 x 1 and only weigh 14lbs, or his 11” square sealed True Subwoofer pushing 2700 wpc rms and some of the old Phase Linear gear but this is his best work and one of the best sounding amplifier he ever designed. This is the 2 Channel amplifier made by Carver that everyone wants. Just look on eBay at all the people offering modification, updates, etc for this amp. But, if you are hunting the M-1.5t then you probably already know all of the above and are wondering if you finally found it. Don’t let someone grab it while you are pinching yourself to make sure it’s not a dream. 🙂

 

I think either would be fantastic! 

 

both gens of adcoms are good, but the 555II is the better amp,  the original 555's usually selll for much cheaper than the 2 series.  $550 for a gen 1 555 is rather high,  i usually see them sell for around $350... the 555ii is a better amp & sells for around $400-450.  i would pass on the 555 for $550. 

 

carvers are good too but usually much more expensive & many ive seen need repaired.  but very good amps. 

 

crown is good too as well as many other brands in this used price range.  im an adcom fan & have used their stuff for many years, pre amps, cd players, amps etc & they all work great & will drive most any speaker with easy.  you can even go BIG & buy 2 of the 555ii's & bridge them to 600watts per channel with one amp to each speaker.  but wear ear muffs!!!  

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Since I used to have Rotel gear, i am a bit partial to their amps.   The Rotel RB 1080, which has 200 watts a side.  I had the older rb991 and liked it paired with my Epics.  The price is a tad high, but there is only one for sale at the moment, it seems.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotel-RB-1080-Stereo-Power-Amplifier-RB1080-Black/333328300930?hash=item4d9bea3b82:g:jS4AAOSwN9tdesdr 

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On 9/16/2019 at 11:43 AM, Shiva said:

Since I used to have Rotel gear, i am a bit partial to their amps.   The Rotel RB 1080, which has 200 watts a side.  I had the older rb991 and liked it paired with my Epics.  The price is a tad high, but there is only one for sale at the moment, it seems.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotel-RB-1080-Stereo-Power-Amplifier-RB1080-Black/333328300930?hash=item4d9bea3b82:g:jS4AAOSwN9tdesdr 

 

i like rotel too,  i have the rb-990bx which is 200watts/ch too, sounded great on my old cf-4's & now i swap it around between klipschorns, chorus 2, forte 2 & other brand speakers i have.  it has very good specs & a huge damping factor of over 1000! ive seen them sell for around $300.  

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40 minutes ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

 

i like rotel too,  i have the rb-990bx which is 200watts/ch too, sounded great on my old cf-4's & now i swap it around between klipschorns, chorus 2, forte 2 & other brand speakers i have.  it has very good specs & a huge damping factor of over 1000! ive seen them sell for around $300.  

Yes,  their specs are nice, very quiet amp, and the damping factor is a nice number,  a lot of amp for the money.     i looked around for either one of those, but found nothing.  Slim pickings for Rotel gear at the moment.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

I appreciate the input guys, well i bit the bullet, and last Saturday i drove 3 hours to Des Moines and purchased an amp,i ended up buying the Carver M1.5t , he came off the price quite a bit so i went for it, supposed to be 350 wpc, i couldn't wait to get back home and get it hooked up, of course this is my first experience with any amplifiers, i am blown away and disappointed at the same time lol, i was figuring on it being louder than i could possibly stand sense i went from 110 wpc to 350 wpc, but that doesn't seem to be the case, but holy @$$$=÷#$</÷!!!, i have never heard the low end on these epics! Wooow! It knocked a set of keys and a picture off of the fireplace mantel DOWN STAIRS in our bedroom! I don't really need the sub with this kind of bottom end, as far as being louder, it might be a couple of db's louder, I'm disappointed, i do understand, so I'm told,  it takes serious power to gain just a few db's, but i did more than double it, don't get me wrong, it's freaking scary loud! But i can have the top lights on the meter blinking and they say (600 watts rms headroom exausted ) and seem like they just want more power, it's mostly the bass drum and low frequencies that makes the meter lights touch the headroom exausted level, and that's about half volume on the reciever, on parts of a song where things change and the lights are only moving about half of the scale you can add some volume until you get close to the headroom exausted and then the loudness or db's have got to be dangerously loud! But it is just as clear as if it were at half the volume! It's probably a good thing im running out of amp, because i know there would be times i would turn it up just a little more! If these version 3's are the worst of them i sure would love to hear the first versions some day! Im sure I'll hear the goods and the bads about all of this, but i just had to tell people like myself who still enjoy listening to their music loud, like it was meant to be! 

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glad you found an amp, carvers are very good.  

 

yes you are experiencing the reality of power vs db... doubling the amp power only results in a 3db increase in volume, which in reality is not that much, especially when you are playing at a very loud level already, your ears dont perceive that 3-4db increase as a lot of actual volume.   but what you are feeling is the added headroom & the ability of a quality amp to produce the lower bass sufficiently compared to the amp in the receiver. 

 

the whole version thing is over rated IMO, the epics are excellent speakers regardless of version & i bet 99% of people cant tell the difference between versions in a blind A-B test.  maybe someone that owns v1 & v2 or 3 could tell a very slight difference after going back & forth for a long time, but it would be very minimal at best. 

 

enjoy your speakers & new amp! 

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