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Bob Crites CT120 tweeters


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On 12/15/2016 at 4:46 PM, jjptkd said:


Yes, this reminds me that every situation is different. Currently I'm in a small room and my listening levels are no where near what they used to be at my old house. Casual listening for me now is in the upper 60db range, 67-68db? If I had these in a larger room and played them louder on a regular basis maybe my impressions would be different? All I can say is that they are working great for me here and now.
 


I too am interested in this. My belles still have their stock tweeters. However, I picked up a pair of klipschorns with ct-125 tweeters in them already (type aa crossovers).

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53 minutes ago, Tarheel TJ said:

Has anyone made a direct comparison to Crites' old tweeter upgrade, the CT125?  Wondering if its worth spending the money to upgrade my 125s.

I don't have charts and graphs and fancy microphones, but what I do have are my impressions of both over extended listening periods.  The 120 to my ears was smoother, cleaner, and less "harsh" than the 125 with different types of music and at multiple SPLs.   I listen to a lot of live music, classic rock and jazz, and the improvements in the higher freqs was noticeable.   Not saying that the 125 was "bad", only that the 120 sounded better, to me.

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I've had the 125's a few years, to me they clearly beat the various K77's I had available.  Much clearer/cleaner, the K77's had a fizzy grainy quality with less extended top.   I am curious about the 120's, but probably not enough to pay out again.  

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On 12/15/2016 at 1:05 PM, jjptkd said:

ut I have dual subs so the bass is handled more than adequately.

Well, then, don't change a thing. Without subs, though, a B network would pad down the horns and let the bass port portion of the HIP shine though. That being said, your approach works well, so no reason to change. My advice was based a no subs.

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14 hours ago, dtr20 said:

I too am interested in this. My belles still have their stock tweeters. However, I picked up a pair of klipschorns with ct-125 tweeters in them already (type as crossovers).

The CT-120 (has a rising response above 10 Khz.) is a bit "hotter" than the 125, which I still have. The 125 is too weak in a LaScala or Khorn and the mid K-400 needs to be dropped by about 1 or 2 db (salt to taste) to balance it right (along with capcitor value change), but it's fine in a Super Heresy or Cornwall using a stock B network. I used a pair of 125's in LaScalas with Bob's Autoformer that allows for 1 db steps. It' not only higher quality than stock, but give you more midrange and tweeter control. Well worth the investment in LaScalas. Very smooth high end it was.

 

It's a matter of listener's age and taste, they are both better than K-77.

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Can't comment on the DE-120, but I am using the B&C DE10-8 in a pair of Super Heresys and it sounds very nice. Much cleaner, airy, open, and clearer compared to a K77. It is more sensitive compared to a K77 so a minor adjustment to a crossover might be needed. The DE10-8 to my ears sounds a lot better than the Selenium D220Ti that it replaced also. So thumbs up here for B&C drivers.

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On 12/16/2016 at 8:56 AM, Tarheel TJ said:

Has anyone made a direct comparison to Crites' old tweeter upgrade, the CT125?  Wondering if its worth spending the money to upgrade my 125s.

Yes. I actually prefer the 125. It's flatter because it does not have a rising response, which causes too much sibilance on vocals.

 

That being said, some of the older ears may need the boost of the 120 there if they have severe roll off above 8 Khz. like a friend of mine, who used to fire a canon in the Army, so it depends on the owner's hearing.

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  • 2 years later...
On 12/25/2016 at 2:47 PM, Bossman said:

Can't comment on the DE-120, but I am using the B&C DE10-8 in a pair of Super Heresys and it sounds very nice. Much cleaner, airy, open, and clearer compared to a K77. It is more sensitive compared to a K77 so a minor adjustment to a crossover might be needed. The DE10-8 to my ears sounds a lot better than the Selenium D220Ti that it replaced also. So thumbs up here for B&C drivers.

I have had those drivers on and off for over 10 years. They represent the "best bang for the buck" from B&C. They are the ones I recommended to DaveA for his MAHLs, big and small. If you can make them fit, they are a better value than the B&C 120, which is terrific also.

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On 12/16/2016 at 9:57 AM, jimjimbo said:

I don't have charts and graphs and fancy microphones, but what I do have are my impressions of both over extended listening periods.  The 120 to my ears was smoother, cleaner, and less "harsh" than the 125 with different types of music and at multiple SPLs.   I listen to a lot of live music, classic rock and jazz, and the improvements in the higher freqs was noticeable.   Not saying that the 125 was "bad", only that the 120 sounded better, to me.

I agree with this. Having measured both. Owned both, and listened to both in Super Heresys I Modded, I still give the win to the 120, but some "ears" may prefer the 125. All are an improvement over the K77. Now that DaveA figured out how to fit a DE-10 on his MAHLs, and to fit that combination into a Super Heresy cabinet, I give the "best bang for buck" nod to the B&C DE-10 with the MAHL as the hands down winner, whether listening to music or measuring curves.

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3 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

So what does this mean, exactly? Which horns lenses? Did you install them? Measure? Listen? WHAT?????

I've been using Bob's CT120's as a drop-in replacement for the K77's on my otherwise stock Lascala II's.  They sound fantastic and have a nice even coverage pattern.  On-axis response at one meter is about 1-3db hotter than the K77 from about 8Khz and up, which translates into less roll-off and extended highs at my listening position.  I never disliked the K77s but the CT120s have a little extra sparkle starting right at the frequencies where middle-aged ears start to roll-off.  I think this is why they are so popular with the old farts on this forum.

 

K77=red, CT120=blue

 

 

k77-ct120.jpg

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1 hour ago, pbphoto said:

I've been using Bob's CT120's as a drop-in replacement for the K77's on my otherwise stock Lascala II's.  They sound fantastic and have a nice even coverage pattern.  On-axis response at one meter is about 1-3db hotter than the K77 from about 8Khz and up, which translates into less roll-off and extended highs at my listening position.  I never disliked the K77s but the CT120s have a little extra sparkle starting right at the frequencies where middle-aged ears start to roll-off.  I think this is why they are so popular with the old farts on this forum.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, and since most Klipscheads (enlightened Audiophiles) have more experienced (abused) hearing mechanism's, whereby the years of rock concerts shave off those high frequency sensitive "little hairs" in your ear ducts, thereby rolling off OUR High Frequency responses, the B&C DE-120 is the perfect Acousic EQUALIZER!! LOL.

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On 12/16/2016 at 9:01 AM, dtr20 said:


I too am interested in this. My belles still have their stock tweeters. However, I picked up a pair of klipschorns with ct-125 tweeters in them already (type aa crossovers).

I put CT-125's in a pair of LaScalas that I refurbished many years ago. I found that I had to drop the midrange down about 2 db with one of Bob's Autofomers in the AA Network, to get the overall balance correct to make up for the less sensitive nature of that tweeter. They are flat to 20 Khz., but less sensitive than any of the B&C's spoken of here. For guys who were former Garage Band members, dwellers, or who attended a Who concert back in the day (million watt PA's with custom Horn Cabs, yikes), who cant hear anything above 8-10 Khz. (I'm good to almost 13 Khz.) The K77 is still a fine tweeter. In fact, you could probably disconnect it and never know the difference. LOL!

 

In fact, Pete Townsend, Mr. Tinnitus, should have changed the name from the Who to simply WHAT? A long time ago. LOL.

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53 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I put CT-125's in a pair of LaScalas that I refurbished many years ago. I found that I had to drop the midrange down about 2 db with one of Bob's Autofomers in the AA Network, to get the overall balance correct to make up for the less sensitive nature of that tweeter. They are flat to 20 Khz., but less sensitive than any of the B&C's spoken of here. For guys who were former Garage Band members, dwellers, or who attended a Who concert back in the day (million watt PA's with custom Horn Cabs, yikes), who cant hear anything above 8-10 Khz. (I'm good to almost 13 Khz.) The K77 is still a fine tweeter. In fact, you could probably disconnect it and never know the difference. LOL!

 

In fact, Pete Townsend, Mr. Tinnitus, should have changed the name from the Who to simply WHAT? A long time ago. LOL.

 

I have mine at the same settings (-2dB) with my "A-4500".

 

The only problem with my set and others is the driver is too large and it hits the top of the (La Scala) cabinet so it needs a bit of the cabinet ground down to fit flush.

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  • 1 year later...

I added the Ct120 and the a/4500 crossover to my 70’s LaScalas, which had the original AL crossover..  It seems like the are overly harsh.  Very detailed, yes,  I read these crossover move the crossover point to 4500, and maybe that is part of the issue?  Any recommendations on what to try and tame them abit?  Thanks Davedev07

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They probably run quite a bit hotter than a 40 year old K77.  They are about +3db than a "modern" K77-D above 8Khz on a La Scala II crossover.  I believe the A/4500 has different taps that you can dial-in attenuation on the tweeter - somebody else who owns them may chime in - there's a few old threads on it.  Otherwise, if you have a preamp with tone controls or an equalizer, dial it back above 8Khz.

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