Suggestions...SVS PB/PC2000 or Klipsch R-115SW

[Paducah Home Theater]

Not sure where you get $1600.

 

Dual R-115SW: $1440

Dual PSA XS15se: $1499

Oh my bad, they must give you $99 off if you get two. Well that changes everything.

[CECAA850]

Some people aren't comfortable or can not DIY.  It's certainly more economical though, no question.

[Paducah Home Theater]

I think flat packs help people with that issue, but, you don't get a good hookup if you buy them separately, they're kind of expensive on their own, but still, we're on par with the amount in question. Really all you need in terms of construction tools is a drill with those.

Edited October 13, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Nismo]

 

Not sure where you get $1600.

 

Dual R-115SW: $1440

Dual PSA XS15se: $1499

Oh my bad, they must give you $99 off if you get two. Well that changes everything.

 

If $$$ is an issue... $160 extra in my pocket means a lot.

[K5SS]

I think flat packs help people with that issue, but, you don't get a good hookup if you buy them separately, they're kind of expensive on their own, but still, we're on par with the amount in question. Really all you need in terms of construction tools is a drill with those.

Aesthetics are way more important to me than sheer output. Like mentioned above, I will let the professionals handle all of the R&D and design. I will then gladly hand over my money so I don't have to deal with making my own.

Everyone is different. I can also see the appeal of DIY, just don't have the time, tools or knowledge to go that route.

Now days you can get pretty amazing performance from the ID heavy hitters, performance that was only available to the DIY crowd not too many years ago.

Edited October 14, 2015 by K5SS

[Nismo]

Plus, with ID... if I don't like the result... I can return it for a full refund.

 

edit: For the OP... I have a pair of 15" XS15se's coming from PSA. I'll be happy to let you know how they sound in my space. Not sure how that will translate with your space, but it at least gives you another option that is similar in price to the R-115SW.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Nismo

[K5SS]

Yeah, my new sub gives me a 45 day return policy with free return shipping. I doubt I am going to need it though;)

[stygz]

Stygz, it sounds like the space may be a little larger than 2900 counting other open space. I is hard to recommend anything without a FR to see what is going on in the room. I would say try matching 15's vented subs. I know in my space a simple adjustment of the Q, bandwidth at 20 Hz can cost me 6 or 7 db's on the extension. I would need 2 or 3 more subs to overcome that with out the EQ adjustment.

Forgive me I am kind of new at this, what is FR? Regarding going dual I am battling astetics. I could support dual pb1000 or dual sb2000. I can do one large sub in the corner or smaller duels on a wall.

[Scrappydue]

I think flat packs help people with that issue, but, you don't get a good hookup if you buy them separately, they're kind of expensive on their own, but still, we're on par with the amount in question. Really all you need in terms of construction tools is a drill with those.

Aesthetics are way more important to me than sheer output. Like mentioned above, I will let the professionals handle all of the R&D and design. I will then gladly hand over my money so I don't have to deal with making my own.

Everyone is different. I can also see the appeal of DIY, just don't have the time, tools or knowledge to go that route.

Now days you can get pretty amazing performance from the ID heavy hitters, performance that was only available to the DIY crowd not too many years ago.

its funny I always see people saying this. However there are none of the subwoofers from reaction, psa, or any of the others that are worth a $h!t in the looks department. They are black. Either textured or a smooth paint of some sort. I mean come on any one of us can paint a box and sand a little afterwards. If you want pretty and real output try a seat on submersive with an upgrade to veneer. Otherwise Svs, rhthmik, and hsu are about the only companies that still are ID and make pretty good looking subs.

Edit: forgot psa has veneer upgrades. So they can be nice looking too.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Scrappydue

[stygz]

I should clarify looks. I am mostly meaning having something that has a size that can blend in and not so much beg the question "what are those big boxes?"

[CECAA850]

Forgive me I am kind of new at this, what is FR?

 

Frequency Response.

[willland]

I should clarify looks. I am mostly meaning having something that has a size that can blend in and not so much beg the question "what are those big boxes?"

 

 

Now without a side by side comparison, take these comments with a grain of salt.  

 

If looks/aesthetics is important to "keep the peace" and you want things to match, then the R-115SW might be the way to go.  I have heard good things about this sub, both musically and HT.  One of the comments that I have heard most is that this is the best performing Reference sub since the RSW-15 was discontinued.  

 

Due to my time with my SVS SB13 Plus, I have no problem recommending SVS subs as an option.  I have not heard the PC/PB 2000 models but have read great reviews(consumer and pro) on both.

 

As far as HT performance, based on figures found, I think the PB2000 and R-115SW will have similar output.  The PB2000 a little more down low while the R-115SW may have better output in the midbass.

 

R-115SW

 

Frequency response
±3.0 dB from 18 to 152 Hz

Crossover low-pass roll-off
-20 dB/octave

Maximum output
                                             CEA-2010A           Traditional
                                             (1M peak)              (2M RMS)
40-63 Hz avg                       123.2 dB                114.2 dB 
63 Hz                                   123.3 dB L             114.3 dB L
50 Hz                                   124.7 dB L             115.7 dB L
40 Hz                                   121.4 dB L             112.4 dB L
20-31.5 Hz avg                    114.6 dB                105.6 dB
31.5 Hz                                118.6 dB L             109.6 dB L
25 Hz                                   113.8 dB                104.8 dB
20 Hz                                   108.7 dB                99.7 dB

 

PB2000

 

PB-2000 CEA 2010 Results (2 meter RMS)

• 20Hz      103.8 dB
• 25Hz      107.6 dB
• 31.5Hz   109.6 dB
• 40Hz      110.1 dB
• 50Hz      110.5 dB
• 63Hz      111.5 dB

 

Bill

[K5SS]

Reaction Audio also has veneer options. Also, I would never be able to match the paint job quality of PSA or RA using spray paint or bed liner and most here couldn't either. There is no "one size fits all" subwoofer option available that checks all of the boxes for everyone, that's why we have these discussions.

Thanks for posting that Willand. That sure does add serious value to this discussion.

Edited October 14, 2015 by K5SS

[Paducah Home Theater]

I should clarify looks. I am mostly meaning having something that has a size that can blend in and not so much beg the question "what are those big boxes?"

If size of DIY is your concern, the R-115 has an internal volume of 4.16 cubic feet not counting the port or bracing, assuming a double thick front baffle. Multiple popular 18's have net box size recommendations of 4 cubic feet. In other words, it's the same size, you're not gaining anything there.

Two R-115's do have more output than two sealed 18's down around 20-25 hz though. Ported vs. sealed isn't really a fair fight in that regard. It is a very simple solution for getting that at maximum volume, especially if you get two.

The down side is that it isn't as tight as I feel like it should be on music. There are some resonances or possible ringing coming out of the port plus at high volume the overhead isn't really there. Just seems a little sloppy on music, like with bass guitar and kick drums. If you could A/B them with some sealed 18's in a well built box with a ton of overhead you'd know what I'm talking about.

But yes, LFE in movies is pretty ridiculous for what they are if they're set up right, no doubt about that.

Edited October 14, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[stygz]

I talked to SVS. I gave a discription of my room and situation. They told me dual pb1000's have about 10% more output than the PB2000. He recommended (like scrappy suggested elsewhere) going with dual pb1000's for less localized bass than a single PB2000 (or similar) in a corner and it should offer more headroom. They will offer me the discounted second sub also.

 

I really just need to move a Boston Acoustics TVee 30 soundbar to help offset the cost of the second PB1000. This was my "system" before I got the current set up.

Edited October 14, 2015 by stygz

[artto]

Multiple subs in different locations are almost always the best option.

 

If you have a somewhat symmetrical enclosed space there will be lots of room mode interaction. With only one sub there's pretty much nothing you can do to smooth the low frequency response to reduce/eliminate resonances/cancellations.

 

With an open space floor plan, you probably won't have as many room mode issues, but then you'l have more room volume to fill with sound so output becomes an issue. Open space floor plans are not going to get you any kind of optimized sound regardless. You really need a dedicated purpose built room for that.

 

In your situation, since it can't be optimized anyway, and output is the main issue, and room modes probably are not as much of an issue due the irregularity of the space and related inter-connected spaces I'd just try either a more powerful higher output sub or you can add second sub like you already have.

 

Just remember, adding an identical second sub is only going to give you an additional +3dB of output. You'll need four to get +6dB.

Edited October 18, 2015 by artto

[wvu80]

The last few posts begs the question, "what is better, one good sub or two less good subs?"

 

We all have a budget, and I agonized about that problem when thinking about buying my first sub.  My answer is "you never regret buying quality."  I bought the best single sub I could find for the money and I've been very happy with that decision.

[derrickdj1]

Dave, buy the best sub possible is a second can be purchased down the road.  Two slightly lesser subs      may out peform one good sub and cover the room more evenly.  I guess, I am at the point where it just seems that subs should be added in pairs or at least multiples.  This gives the best quality of bass in the room.

[stygz]

Well change of events. I ran it past the wife and it looks like it will be a single larger sub in the corner. BTW there is only one corner to work with. I think I will be steering towards another SVS because the Trade in deal is really hard to beat. I had one guy want my PB1000 but could only fork over $225. My trade in value with SVS is $420 after shipping. Since it will be going in the corner, I wonder if there would be any difference between the PB or PC? I say this because the PC has a rear firing port (which would fire into the corner) or the PB which would fire into the middle of the room?

 

In a strange twist of events I had my wireless sublink go out today. SVS is sending me a replacement. I also seem to be having issues with my Denon connecting to WiFi? It will not seem to connect. I have had issues in the past the Denon  iPhone app/receiver connecting. However at the same time my iPhone and any other device would work without a problem. I guess that will be a call to Denon tomorrow. It is funny on the receiver I would thing when it is scanning for a network it takes a few tries for my network to show up. It will pick up the neighbors no problem. Not sure who here is familiar with Denon and WiFi, but I have a dual band router (2.4ghz and 5ghz) the Denon does not pick up on the 5ghz band but my tv does.

 

On a good note I did get a set of Niles OS5.5 outdoor speakers set up today on the Zone2/patio.

[wvu80]

Dave, buy the best sub possible is a second can be purchased down the road. Two slightly lesser subs may out perform one good sub and cover the room more evenly.

 

You are right of course, but I think we are probably talking about the same concept, just to lessor degrees.  Not everybody has the budget to purchase a couple of $1,000 subs.

 

My thinking was centered on a lower tier, if you had $600 to spend, would you rather have a pretty good $600 sub or a couple of mediocre $300 subs?  In that instance, I would take the single.