Is Reel to Reel really that good?

[garyrc]

Just saying I've never heard a deck of any quality at all in good working order that had any significant noise from the electronics or that raised the inherent noise floor of the tape.

 

My old Teak 4 channel (1/4 track) put hiss on the tape, as heard through JBLs, Klipsch, and Headphones.  Although the electronics may not have been very good, it was checked out by Teak, and they said it was up to spec, and biased/EQd properly for the type of tape being used.  I bought Dolby B, which resulted in a sign in my recording room that read "Beware of the Dolby."  I went to DBX, which, with the Teak, pumped.  My tech guy (rated "The best in the Bay Area by the Bay Guardian) said that it was because of irregularities in the frequency response (3 dB "Head Bumps") in the Teak that the DBX was sensitive to.  I replaced the Teak with a 1/2 track Crown, and the hiss was much, much lower by ear -- still there, but not a problem.  The Ampex professionals at SFSU also produced a bit of hiss, but, like the Crowns, no problem.  On the rare occasions I used DBX with the Crowns, that worked fine, too.

[Wolfbane]

 

Just saying I've never heard a deck of any quality at all in good working order that had any significant noise from the electronics or that raised the inherent noise floor of the tape.

 

My old Teak 4 channel (1/4 track) put hiss on the tape, as heard through JBLs, Klipsch, and Headphones.  Although the electronics may not have been very good, it was checked out by Teak, and they said it was up to spec, and biased/EQd properly for the type of tape being used.  I bought Dolby B, which resulted in a sign in my recording room that read "Beware of the Dolby."  I went to DBX, which, with the Teak, pumped.  My tech guy (rated "The best in the Bay Area by the Bay Guardian) said that it was because of irregularities in the frequency response (3 dB "Head Bumps") in the Teak that the DBX was sensitive to.  I replaced the Teak with a 1/2 track Crown, and the hiss was much, much lower by ear -- still there, but not a problem.  The Ampex professionals at SFSU also produced a bit of hiss, but, like the Crowns, no problem.  On the rare occasions I used DBX with the Crowns, that worked fine, too.

 

 

^^^Teac?^^^

 

Technic's Eye Candy here: http://www.j-corder.com/Black_Magic.html

Edited October 17, 2015 by Wolfbane

[oldred]

This topic has really taken off...... I suggest checking out documentory on 

Sound City..... If you have amazon prime..... I couldn't stop watching it.... It kind of goes into the analog VS  digital and magnetic tape VS digital recording... Not strictly Reel to Reel...... But interesting  

[Mallette]

I never question what another hears.  All I can do is repeat that with any credible R2R I've never heard hiss from the electronics, only the raw tape.  Hiss of the raw tape remained the same after a signal was applied.  It should be obvious that noise reduction would simply have resulted in pumping of hiss, which would be more objectionable than steady stated hiss.  Again, either with variable DBX carefully set or with 2:1 DBX this was never the case for me then, nor is it with tapes I DBX'd and still have going back as far as 1976. 

 

Dave

[jcmusic]

I never question what another hears.  All I can do is repeat that with any credible R2R I've never heard hiss from the electronics, only the raw tape.  Hiss of the raw tape remained the same after a signal was applied.  It should be obvious that noise reduction would simply have resulted in pumping of hiss, which would be more objectionable than steady stated hiss.  Again, either with variable DBX carefully set or with 2:1 DBX this was never the case for me then, nor is it with tapes I DBX'd and still have going back as far as 1976. 

 

Dave

Dave,

Remember that CD I made and sent to you a few years ago from one of my Tape Project Tapes? Did you hear any hiss on it? That was made without any DBX or any other noise reduction used!!!

[Ceptorman]

This topic has really taken off...... I suggest checking out documentory on 

Sound City..... If you have amazon prime..... I couldn't stop watching it.... It kind of goes into the analog VS  digital and magnetic tape VS digital recording... Not strictly Reel to Reel...... But interesting  

Yes it is very interesting. 

 

Did you see Grohl's Sonic Highways special on HBO last year? It was very good also. 

[artto]

It's only as good as the recording engineer.

 

And hopefully the mastering engineer ( or worse yet, the re-mastering engineer) doesn't **** it up.

[garyrc]

 

 

Just saying I've never heard a deck of any quality at all in good working order that had any significant noise from the electronics or that raised the inherent noise floor of the tape.

 

My old Teak 4 channel (1/4 track) put hiss on the tape, as heard through JBLs, Klipsch, and Headphones.  Although the electronics may not have been very good, it was checked out by Teak, and they said it was up to spec, and biased/EQd properly for the type of tape being used.  I bought Dolby B, which resulted in a sign in my recording room that read "Beware of the Dolby."  I went to DBX, which, with the Teak, pumped.  My tech guy (rated "The best in the Bay Area by the Bay Guardian) said that it was because of irregularities in the frequency response (3 dB "Head Bumps") in the Teak that the DBX was sensitive to.  I replaced the Teak with a 1/2 track Crown, and the hiss was much, much lower by ear -- still there, but not a problem.  The Ampex professionals at SFSU also produced a bit of hiss, but, like the Crowns, no problem.  On the rare occasions I used DBX with the Crowns, that worked fine, too.

 

 

^^^Teac?^^^

 

Technic's Eye Candy here: http://www.j-corder.com/Black_Magic.html

 

 

Sorry, Teac.  Spelling repressed.

[BamaMike]

Reel to reel was mentioned in another thread and I got all excited as I had not seen a thread on the subject. BUT... being the forum newb I am, I just haven't been around long enough to see one pop up. I ran a search and this appears to be the most recent discussion and I, for one, am thrilled there IS a thread. I don't care how old it is! LOL

 

In some ways RTR is experiencing a slight renaissance. Revox has plans for a new machine next year and there are at least 3 sources for NEW magnetic tape. ATR, RMG/Pyral and Splicit.

 

I don't know where to start in terms of a comment after reading this entire thread but I have 5 reel to reels and I love each and every one of them. I am the original owner of an Akai GX-77 I purchased in Tokyo while in the service in 1983. I love the Akai's for the GX heads (glass and crystal ferrite) and also own a GX-747 and GX-630 (both 10.5" units) as well as Pioneer RT-909. Reels are played in our house OFTEN. While in Japan, I purchased lots of vinyl and the majority of it has a SINGLE pass on it as I dubbed all my vinyl to reel and I still practice this today with my new vinyl purchases.

 

No shortage of vintage gear in our house...

 

[BamaMike]

[Mallette]

Nice gear!  Being well along transferring PWK's personal collection of R2R dating back to 1953, I am in a good position to say his recordings match or exceed anything done with todays technology. 

 

Dave

[Marvel]

I still have my Teac 4 track, Tascam DAT, and Alesis ADAT. Hardly any time at all on the two digital decks. I can't bear to part with them...

 

Bruce

[BamaMike]

[BamaMike]

[muel]

1 hour ago, Mallette said:

Nice gear!  Being well along transferring PWK's personal collection of R2R dating back to 1953, I am in a good position to say his recordings match or exceed anything done with todays technology. 

 

Dave

I was very happy to hear you are working on this transfer!  What is going to happen with the final results?  Any word on availability or accessibility?

[Mallette]

2 hours ago, muel said:

I was very happy to hear you are working on this transfer!  What is going to happen with the final results?  Any word on availability or accessibility?

That's up to Klipsch.  I just the obedient...and damn lucky...servant. 

 

Dave

[BamaMike]

Regarding hiss and noise reduction... I have yet to use any NR with my decks with excellent results. If there is some hiss, it's not evident enough to convince me I need NR.

 

I love listening to reels of "virgin plays" of my vinyl. It never fails to amaze myself and guests.

 

 

 

 

[Mallette]

I am totally devoted to DBX noise reduction and have been since it appeared in the late 70s.  AAMOF, I still have my original 116 and it still works nicely.  Aside from eliminated such hiss as there may be, I use it to restore the dynamic range to both LPs and to tapes.  After so many decades it takes me no longer to get it set than to set the volume...and no more thought.  Main DBX these days is a 4BX. 

 

I've always felt the bias against DBX as silly as that against RIAA.  Reasons are similar, and the result is greater accuracy not "enhancement." 

 

Dave

[BamaMike]

26 minutes ago, Mallette said:

I am totally devoted to DBX noise reduction and have been since it appeared in the late 70s.  AAMOF, I still have my original 116 and it still works nicely.  Aside from eliminated such hiss as there may be, I use it to restore the dynamic range to both LPs and to tapes.  After so many decades it takes me no longer to get it set than to set the volume...and no more thought.  Main DBX these days is a 4BX. 

 

I've always felt the bias against DBX as silly as that against RIAA.  Reasons are similar, and the result is greater accuracy not "enhancement." 

 

Dave

There is a lot of hate for the DBX Range Expansion systems. I bought my 3BX III new in 1983 and it's been in my system since new. Granted, moderation is the key. Heavy amounts of expansion and impact restoration results in the sound "breathing" or "pulsing" for lack of a better word.

 

I would LOVE to own a 4BX!

 

 

[BamaMike]

I have a DBX 2015 Eq that is pretty rare that really like as well.