maxima95 Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I really hope there isn't any snake oil talk around here. Oh how I loathe. There is little point in attempting to impose your view upon others. Clearly, others differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 At the risk of sounding like even more of a troll... Can we please stop talking about $612 binding posts? That was a total strawman Matt concocted to make my suggestion of a higher quality part for his amplifier part seem ludicrous and easier to mock. I am looking at page 77 of my 2015 Parts Express catalog and I count three different models of WBT binding posts and the most expensive one is a mere $57. You guys might think I'm nuts but the connection between the amplifier and the speakers is mechanically one of the most important areas of an amplifier - any amplifier. Granted, I've never built an amp from scratch but I've built plenty of speakers and restored a few old amps and I always install the best terminals I can afford. Plastic nuts on binding posts strip, crack, and fail to hold on tightly over time. That's all I was pointing out. Now don't you feel silly Fjd? Next up: I grill Matt about his choice of tube sockets! Give it a rest already, everyone has moved past this crap and are just interested in the amp build / discussion..........................Your attempts to derail the thread with crap that is of little consequence to anyone but you is tiring. Everyone understands YOU want WBT and YOU think they are better...........Enough said MOVE on Christ we get a new tube builder on an audio forum which we can all benefit from his knowledge, and you are pizzing about binding posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krispy Kirk Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 After re-reading this entire thread I now see that I had stepped into the middle of a (pre-existing) flame war when I innocently (or so I thought) commented on Matt's choice of binding posts. My comment (unfortunately) went off like a grenade in a bunker full of wounded defenders. I am now beginning to understand why folks had their blood up and a few seemed itching for a fight. That wasn't me, flame wars aren't my style. But since I do have decades of experience with online forums, let me also point out that this one thread exhibits many of the things that are wrong with our thinking when we sit down at our keyboards to do virtual battle: 1) Incorrect assumptions. It was incorrectly assumed that I called Matt a "troll" (posts #140 & #142). It was also incorrectly assumed that I claimed that there were audible differences between binding posts (#131, #159, et al) which served as another handy strawman for why I was even pointing them out in the first place. I mentioned WBT as an example of a quality OEM parts manufacturer and the incorrect assumption was that I believe hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars should be spent on this manufacturer's top shelf parts (#132 & #161). 2) Poor reading comprehension. Jumping to conclusions is easy when your emotions are running hot. Slowing down and carefully reading what has been posted is often the most difficult thing in the world to do on a forum. Just as a carpenter is encouraged to "measure twice and cut once", I encourage all of you to "read twice and respond once". You might even want to read your response twice before you hit "Post". Full disclosure: I was an ME major in college. Circuit designs and power response graphs do little for me even though we all know they are like porn to an EE. What I am interested in when it comes to any piece of audio gear is the construction of the thing. How does it feel under my hand? Is it solid? Do the moving parts work positively and smoothly? The parts I will likely be most critical of, therefore, are things like terminals, feet, potentiometers, switches, fasteners, and cases. Fit and finish are more important to consumers the higher you go up in the audiophile price range. Ergonomics become even more important. This might be the opposite of conventional wisdom ("If it sounds good, it is good!") but when I spend multiple kilobucks on a piece of gear, I want something that looks and feels expensive. I will have already assumed that it sounds expensive. These considerations seem to get lost whenever we sit around and worshipfully gush over - or, mercilessly tear to pieces - a new piece of gear from a new manufacturer. Neither excessive praise nor irrational criticism was my intent when I blundered into this thread. I merely wanted to offer a viewpoint that was different from the typical armchair Electrical Engineer's. I'll get out of your way now so you can get back to your talk about circuit designs and total harmonic distortion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxJPMxx Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I really hope there isn't any snake oil talk around here. Oh how I loathe. There is little point in attempting to impose your view upon others. Clearly, others differ. I can understand how the layman can get confused with all the hype in the audiophool industry. Please continue to pay $200 a cap or $500 a binding post if it makes you happy. I have no objections with mechanical considerations of gear. If you are constantly switching wires, amps, speakers, sources, etc.... and you need the connections to be durable then by all means have at it. Military grade stuff which was brought up is an example of rigorous engineering to design stuff that can hold up to abuse. There is a cost to performance ratio which engineers need to balance but there is always a point where you will reach a diminished return, most audio stuff reaches that point pretty quickly and anything else is usually audio jewelry to keep up with the jones' or to fulfill an ego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) $300 for binding posts sounds a bit steep but who am i to judge. I prefer bare wire spring type myself but nothing wrong with having a preference of any type or style, if everything was the same life would surely suck. Edited November 15, 2015 by jason str Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxJPMxx Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 if everything was the same life would shurely suck. Yes I agree, options are good. I just feel like there is a lot of bad information going around about how some things will make an audible difference. If a product does make an audible difference then please explain what is the audible difference and how the audible difference was created. Same goes for a mechanical upgrade. I get a hoot out of these giant speaker connectors on the back of some amps, take for example the McIntosh line, they have these huge female banana jacks but then you look on the inside and it's just soldered to a little pcb with little traces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 huge female banana jacks but then you look on the inside and it's just soldered to a little pcb with little traces. Gotta have them big binders to affix the 8 AWG garden hose sized welding cable... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) I dont know about anyone else, but im gettin tired of readin JibberJabber, although entertaining NOTHING IS GETTING BUILT! Dammit man i want to click on this thread and hear about soldering iron wounds, Xacto knife near misses, spilled beer on the project, stepping on a resistor leads in the carpet with bare feet, dog hair all over the project. Get busy Amp builders!!! Edited November 15, 2015 by minermark 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthews Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) NOTHING IS GETTING BUILT! oh, but it is Mark edit: new thread coming soon Edited November 15, 2015 by Matthews 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxJPMxx Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Get busy Kit builders!!! What did you just call me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know of any kits w/ 6HJ5 tubes for finals.......oh wait I have already said too much.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Get busy Kit builders!!! What did you just call me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know of any kits w/ 6HJ5 tubes for finals.......oh wait I have already said too much.... You are indeed correct, i fixed that. Now the next time i check this thread i want to hear a band-aid story in short order, or at least a minor burn.DAM ...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I just found this stash of 450 amp Mercury vapor rectifier tubes for the Kit amplifier that uses UV162. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Goodies for the electronic bench, as well as tools can be found here http://www.mpja.com/ Been using these guys for years, lots of kinky stuff on the cheap, sign up for their mailing list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 When is the sequel Sequel? LOL Well, it has not been brought up until now, but... as of today, Matt of Tool Shed has agreed to custom build me a pre-amplifier (not to be confused with the other pre thread) to match my custom built G6. WooHoo!!! getting excited about tubes again -Thanks Matt, of Tool Shed Audio- WooHoo... Stay tuned all edit: get back to work Matt LOL, So much for the $600.00 range and wattage. I remember when we were discussing your "price range". I am very much looking forward to your feedback on the amp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aercool Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) What a roller coaster ride this thread has been! I just read through it and was amazed at the twists and turns it took! Matt was so great to work with through this project. I'm so thrilled with the outcome, the sound is exactly what I was looking for, it looks the way I want it to look - and works great with my Zu Soul Supreme speakers. I love the sound of the Zu's, but they have some quirks that make them a challenge with single-ended tube amps previously. I knew the Zu's could produce solid bass, but I just wasn't getting it from my previous amp. I've told Matt that the Transcendence 12 sounds "authoritative" a couple times, because it's the only way I know how to describe it. I listen to a lot of Americana music that isn't too demanding, but I do like it loud when the source music calls for it. My pass/fail test was a Lucinda Williams track (newest CD: Down Where The Spirit Meets the Bone) that had some bass that the Inspire KT-150 could not cleanly reproduce. My T-12 does it in spades. Anyhoo - just wanted to send out a thanks to Matt for being a pleasure to work with and accommodating my OCD in certain design elements of my amp! I have so much more time on my hands now because I'm not constantly searching Audiogon for a tube amp that I think might work with the Zu's. I've found one. Search is over. The only downside is that I'm not getting as much sleep as I used to, because I end up listening to music later into the night than I was previously... Edited November 20, 2015 by Aercool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 What a roller coaster ride this thread has been! I just read through it and was amazed at the twists and turns it took! Matt was so great to work with through this project. I'm so thrilled with the outcome, the sound is exactly what I was looking for, it looks the way I want it to look - and works great with my Zu Soul Supreme speakers. I love the sound of the Zu's, but they have some quirks that make them a challenge with single-ended tube amps previously. I knew the Zu's could produce solid bass, but I just wasn't getting it from my previous amp. I've told Matt that the Transcendence 12 sounds "authoritative" a couple times, because it's the only way I know how to describe it. I listen to a lot of Americana music that isn't too demanding, but I do like it loud when the source music calls for it. My pass/fail test was a Lucinda Williams track (newest CD: Down Where The Spirit Meets the Bone) that had some bass that the Inspire KT-150 could not cleanly reproduce. My T-12 does it in spades. Anyhoo - just wanted to send out a thanks to Matt for being a pleasure to work with and accommodating my OCD in certain design elements of my amp! I have so much more time on my hands now because I'm not constantly searching Audiogon for a tube amp that I think might work with the Zu's. I've found one. Search is over. The only downside is that I'm not getting as much sleep as I used to, because I end up listening to music later into the night than I was previously... Welcome to the forums, Come back and post often 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxJPMxx Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 What a roller coaster ride this thread has been! I just read through it and was amazed at the twists and turns it took! Matt was so great to work with through this project. I'm so thrilled with the outcome, the sound is exactly what I was looking for, it looks the way I want it to look - and works great with my Zu Soul Supreme speakers. I love the sound of the Zu's, but they have some quirks that make them a challenge with single-ended tube amps previously. I knew the Zu's could produce solid bass, but I just wasn't getting it from my previous amp. I've told Matt that the Transcendence 12 sounds "authoritative" a couple times, because it's the only way I know how to describe it. I listen to a lot of Americana music that isn't too demanding, but I do like it loud when the source music calls for it. My pass/fail test was a Lucinda Williams track (newest CD: Down Where The Spirit Meets the Bone) that had some bass that the Inspire KT-150 could not cleanly reproduce. My T-12 does it in spades. Anyhoo - just wanted to send out a thanks to Matt for being a pleasure to work with and accommodating my OCD in certain design elements of my amp! I have so much more time on my hands now because I'm not constantly searching Audiogon for a tube amp that I think might work with the Zu's. I've found one. Search is over. The only downside is that I'm not getting as much sleep as I used to, because I end up listening to music later into the night than I was previously... First post and you don't have Klipsch speakers. Are you friend or family to toolshed amps? How did you find this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 A year or so back i started a thread with all things "Parts" and a few more members chimed in with threirs also. Cannot find the thread, it would be good to post a link to that thread here, as it turned out to really cover the feild as in hard to find goodies. Maybe onw of you thread wizards can find it. Funny i cannot find a thread i started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToolShedAmps Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 What a roller coaster ride this thread has been! I just read through it and was amazed at the twists and turns it took! Matt was so great to work with through this project. I'm so thrilled with the outcome, the sound is exactly what I was looking for, it looks the way I want it to look - and works great with my Zu Soul Supreme speakers. I love the sound of the Zu's, but they have some quirks that make them a challenge with single-ended tube amps previously. I knew the Zu's could produce solid bass, but I just wasn't getting it from my previous amp. I've told Matt that the Transcendence 12 sounds "authoritative" a couple times, because it's the only way I know how to describe it. I listen to a lot of Americana music that isn't too demanding, but I do like it loud when the source music calls for it. My pass/fail test was a Lucinda Williams track (newest CD: Down Where The Spirit Meets the Bone) that had some bass that the Inspire KT-150 could not cleanly reproduce. My T-12 does it in spades. Anyhoo - just wanted to send out a thanks to Matt for being a pleasure to work with and accommodating my OCD in certain design elements of my amp! I have so much more time on my hands now because I'm not constantly searching Audiogon for a tube amp that I think might work with the Zu's. I've found one. Search is over. The only downside is that I'm not getting as much sleep as I used to, because I end up listening to music later into the night than I was previously... First post and you don't have Klipsch speakers. Are you friend or family to toolshed amps? How did you find this thread? Wow, just when I thought you were going to be decent.... If it wasn't ABUNDANTLY clear, this guy is a "CUSTOMER"..... not a relative, not a "high-school" buddy.....kapisch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxJPMxx Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I just wanted to know how he found the forum. If you google "toolshed audio" this thread doesn't come up, I haven't looked past 5 pages of results fwiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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