Minimum wage. Should it be $15?

[Max2]

The whole "Global trade gig" has smacked us around and basically made us a nation of consumers.  This is a pretty big complement for our country to be seen as just "buyers," but a curse to the people that are unable to compete or much worse, unwilling.  This in turn has killed the "skilled labor" workers, most of them were getting sent to the pasture anyway from the robotics boom.  Oh and lets all cry foul to all the Asian electronics and China made trinkets that fill the voids in our life, while we all expect them to be dirt, dirt cheap. Just think, a 60"  made in the USA flatscreen made still be 10 grand today if we built it.   It works both ways, we get cheap stuff while true sweat shop workers and 18 hour laborers are REALLY punished in other countries and yes the majority of these folks would give their right arm to have a mouthful of what the cheating, fake "disabled or unwilling loser's" get over here.  We have killed the middle class and that IS the bottom line.

[T2K]

Are you saying that we have exported our own economy and that we could determine who is responsible by simply looking inside our homes and in our driveways?

 

Keith

[Jim Naseum]

We've become a "punishing country." Every aspect of our culture as turned to punishment as the primary ingredient of social order. Because of this ethic of punishment, it's interesting how we support the punishment of low wage workers, because we generally feel they deserve the punishment for being lazy, or for smoking, or whatever ills we think we can heap on "low class people." You can feel this punishment vibe all around you. Police are punishing young kids by killing them, beating them, arresting a 6 year old for assault, cuffing kids off to jail. We have more people in prison being punished than anyone in the world. We have more people being punished in solitary than anywhere in the world. We punish citizens in foreign lands for being the wrong color or religion or ethnicity, or for being near an enemy. We punish whistleblowers, we punish demonstrators, we punish dissent, we punish drug addicts. We punish the poor for being poor.We've devised an entire culture of punishment, sadly.

 

Higher wages for the lowest category workers benefits everyone from Wall Street to main street. They pay rent, they buy gasoline, food, electricity, cable TV, computer junk, toys, diapers, tires, music and so on. The word "growth" in any economic term means MORE. More buying of everything you can name from A to Z. Putting more money  in the hands of the lowest paid adds MORE GROWTH. Putting more money in the hands of a billionaire adds ZERO GROWTH, because they are accumulating money, not spending it in the real economy. It's just that simple.  

[Max2]

Are you saying that we have exported our own economy and that we could determine who is responsible by simply looking inside our homes and in our driveways?

 

Keith

 

 

If you're talking to me, I would say your analogy has some merit, in instances, but not as a whole.   My father made more back in the 80's than I do now. He had no college Ed, worked for the same company and fought to get to higher tiers over the course of 25 years. We didn't really know how good we had it back in the 80's, of course interest rates were sky high and to this day I don't know how he afforded the things he did for our family much less a mortgage, but he made it work !  

 

The lower middle have become "high browed," all the while illegals come in the country and do the work that others refuse and they are happy to do it and in most cases do an excellent job !  There is less and less work for the average folk unless you can sell something. People are much different now, especially parents offering dismal raising of the children, few morals and religious faith that brings appreciation and respect of others which is almost gone.  All these things and many more add up in the end. Pretty soon the bucket is 75% full of bruised apples.

[CECAA850]

The problem with your (jo56steph74) re-distribution of wealth theory is that not everyone works for large corporations with fat cat ceo's.  There's a lot of small businesses that would suffer greatly or go out of business if they're payroll increased.

 

How do you (or did you) make a living?

Edited November 6, 2015 by CECAA850

[xxJPMxx]

It's funny, I must be in the minority. I feel that every cog in the wheel is as important as the the other. Think about it, if everyone went and "bettered" themselves and went to college and got masters and whatever then there would be nobody to flip burgers, or if there were they would have to be paid $50/hr just to justify paying for college and time spent studying. Does this not make sense? The world needs burger flippers and personally I don't want it to be some person that is underpayed and hates being there, that makes for a bad burger

Edited November 6, 2015 by xxJPMxx

[babadono]

Fifty years ago the "wealth pie" was $21 and split in a manner of CEO $20 and median workers $1. Today the $301 of the "wealth pie" is now split CEO $300 and median workers still $1.

And this is immoral and nothing but greed run amuck.

I don't care who you is you ain't worth $100 million a year, sorry your job is not 2 thousand times harder than mine.

Just my $.02

[CECAA850]

I don't care who you is you ain't worth $100 million a year, sorry your job is not 2 thousand times harder than mine.

 

You're worth what you can get no?  Blame the game, not the player.

[Bella]

Fifty years ago the "wealth pie" was $21 and split in a manner of CEO $20 and median workers $1. Today the $301 of the "wealth pie" is now split CEO $300 and median workers still $1.

And this is immoral and nothing but greed run amuck.

I don't care who you is you ain't worth $100 million a year, sorry your job is not 2 thousand times harder than mine.

Just my $.02

There are boardrooms full of very smart people all around the world, and stock holders also, that would disagree with you. And I'm sure some of them might agree, but explain it is necessary to compete in the global marketplace.

[Jim Naseum]

The problem with your (jo56steph74) re-distribution of wealth theory is that not everyone works for large corporations with fat cat ceo's.  There's a lot of small businesses that would suffer greatly or go out of business if they're payroll increased.

 

How do you (or did you) make a living?

 

What do they do when the electricity rates rise? Utilities? Rent? Cost of goods? Do they adjust, or do they just fold up shop and go home? 

 

Labor is just one of many costs that go into a business. 

 

I didn't suggest "re-distributing" wealth. I suggested properly "distributing" it.  Like it or not, the primary role of government is to manage the creation of, and DISTRIBUTE WEALTH by making rules. 

[Bella]

Putting more money in the hands of a billionaire adds ZERO GROWTH, because they are accumulating money, not spending it in the real economy. It's just that simple.

Interesting. What would you say the average person, given a healthy sum of cash, would do with it? How many lottery winners still have most of their winnings? How many rich businessmen reinvest their capital into new or existing businesses?

[Fjd]

 

Fifty years ago the "wealth pie" was $21 and split in a manner of CEO $20 and median workers $1. Today the $301 of the "wealth pie" is now split CEO $300 and median workers still $1.

And this is immoral and nothing but greed run amuck.

I don't care who you is you ain't worth $100 million a year, sorry your job is not 2 thousand times harder than mine.

Just my $.02

 

 

 

 

Just a very simplistic example if you take the "wage/salary/benefits" as a "pool of funds" in a corporate budget to be divided and distributed amongst everyone in the corporation. 

 

It makes sense why the NFL players association will bargain for wages to be a percentage of the gross revenues.  We also know that it is very lucrative to be an NFL owner even with roughly 2/3 of the total NFL revenues going to the players and having a wage structure with a minimum salary for the players that increases each year.

 

I find it interesting that in the 1970's Peter F. Drucker (during this time, a well-respected American management guru) had endorsed the 20 to 1 ratio for CEO to median worker in sustaining robust growth.  Up until this time the U.S. was very prosperous with this 20 to 1 ratio, yet, look where we are today.  A survey of the S&P 500 index companies, during 2012 the compensation received by the CEO was 354 times that of the median of the rank-and-file worker and look at the general downward trends in prosperity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Fjd

[Jim Naseum]

 

Fifty years ago the "wealth pie" was $21 and split in a manner of CEO $20 and median workers $1. Today the $301 of the "wealth pie" is now split CEO $300 and median workers still $1.

And this is immoral and nothing but greed run amuck.

I don't care who you is you ain't worth $100 million a year, sorry your job is not 2 thousand times harder than mine.

Just my $.02

 

This should be obvious to anyone, but apparently isn't.  You can not work 2000 times harder than say, a ditch digger. However, you can be 1) in the right group with the right contacts and information; 2) More clever; 3) More devious and crooked; and of course 4) more lucky. There are only 24 hours in a day. And everyone has to sleep. 

[Bella]

"Like it or not, the primary role of government is to manage the creation of, and DISTRIBUTE WEALTH by making rules. "

Like it or not, the primary role of a SOCIALIST government is to manage the creation of, and DISTRIBUTE WEALTH by making rules."

Fixed it for you.

[Jim Naseum]

 

Putting more money in the hands of a billionaire adds ZERO GROWTH, because they are accumulating money, not spending it in the real economy. It's just that simple.

Interesting. What would you say the average person, given a healthy sum of cash, would do with it? How many lottery winners still have most of their winnings? How many rich businessmen reinvest their capital into new or existing businesses?

 

Lottery winners are not significant. What we know about accumulated wealth is that it resides in very few hands. Let's say 10,000. Those people keep accumulating more. Have you ever looked at a Fortune Magazine wealthiest list? The same people with say, $50B show up year after year on the list. So, it should be obvious they aren't spending that money. 

 

Today, the corporations in America are sitting on $3 Trillion dollars in uninvested wealth. They have no place to put this money to use. They can't employ this capital at all. So, what do they do? They buy back their OWN STOCK! That's THREE TRILLION BUCKS with no where to go. 

[Bella]

Putting more money in the hands of a billionaire adds ZERO GROWTH, because they are accumulating money, not spending it in the real economy. It's just that simple.

Interesting. What would you say the average person, given a healthy sum of cash, would do with it? How many lottery winners still have most of their winnings? How many rich businessmen reinvest their capital into new or existing businesses?

Lottery winners are not significant. What we know about accumulated wealth is that it resides in very few hands. Let's say 10,000. Those people keep accumulating more. Have you ever looked at a Fortune Magazine wealthiest list? The same people with say, $50B show up year after year on the list. So, it should be obvious they aren't spending that money. 

 

Today, the corporations in America are sitting on $3 Trillion dollars in uninvested wealth. They have no place to put this money to use. They can't employ this capital at all. So, what do they do? They buy back their OWN STOCK! That's THREE TRILLION BUCKS with no where to go.

This is a far more complicated subject than you portray it to be. Those that are showing up the wealthiest list aren't sitting on $50 billion is cash. That might be their net worth, but it's tied up in all sorts of business ventures, bonds, stockholdings, etc... And that is, I might add, how they got onto that list to begin with: by taking the money they earned and putting it to work for them, and then taking those profits and putting those to work to make even more.

And to address your assertion that corps are sitting on piles of cash. Yes. They are. But for reasons far different than you believe. It certainly has very little to do with not having a place to put it to make it useful and more to do with being uncertain about global outlooks and therefore, they would rather keep their powder dry than expose it to risk. I'm sure you've noticed, things are not as healthy as they are portrayed. Corporations know this better than anyone.

[Bella]

3) More devious and crooked;

This is a very telling statement about how you perceive the rich. I notice you made no reference to dedication. I know many very rich people who work 'round the clock. Whether it's on the phone, in a boardroom, on a private jet, or from their bed. Sure, they aren't digging a ditch, but that's because their too smart for that. But also, it isn't because they are more devious or crooked.

[Max2]

As fare as Billionaires are concerned, there are under 2000 of those on the planet I think.

 

Its easy guys   Actually the concept is, but the battle is not

 

 

You have to bring something to the table.  You cant be that identical twin to the other 499 matches in the box.  People recognize talent and hard work and if they don't, get your face in front of others that will. Surround yourself with people that are successful AND genuine, this is the start of your path even if it may be very long and very hard.  Stop going down the same road that leads to the same destination.

 

Most successful people don't get rich for the hunger of money, they get there by being a good person that aspire to want and do more and go that extra step.  The wealth is just a by-product that comes from who they are and the jobs they're doing.

 

 

I know of an Electrician and a plumber, both locals that started working for old family companies here in my town. They branched out on their own and the Electrician has a multi state company that is making more money than I could imagine. The plumber has taken over the ruling rights of the old plumbing company here that ruled the roost and I know he is making 7 figures.

 

Its there guys, we cant change the BS laws but you can change yourself that includes a direction to better yourself. You have to want it! You have to work for it and its not going to be easy.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Max2

[xxJPMxx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gKX9TWRyfs

[prerich]

Done