Great Deal Crossover Upgrade by ALK

[twk123]

 

I read it as well and was taken back by the personal attacks and vindictiveness of his website that I would consider slander. Although I have to say it was a first to have someone accuse their competition of having Alzheimer's, being a 'bible thumper' AND a Communist all in one short piece of writing...

You must be referring to something in one the posts, because I don't see anything like that on his website.

 

 

PM sent.

[Deang]

Found it. "Bad Guys". Lol, too funny.

A lot to address, but it would take a whole day, and I just don't have that kind of time.

I primarily build Klipsch designs with parts from reputable suppliers and manufactures. What can I say, I've never had a part failure. I have made mistakes, and they are usually shared with everyone here.

I'm tired of defending the SuperAA. I've told the story of how it came be a 100 times, and always the same way. He didn't seem to have a problem with my version of it when he was an active member here. He posts a very abbreviated version and declares that I'm either lying or have Alzheimer's. My money is on Alzheimer's. Note: The SuperX is not the ALKJr.

"Flying solder joints". Capacitor leads are tied to the much stronger solid core inductor leads. I make good mechanical connections, maximizing the contact areas between the parts. I use solder to "paint" the connection. Sometimes I have to use standoffs, like with the Jupiter builds. I don't use solder as glue, nor do I use it as the primary path or conduit for the signal. My parts don't move. Every part is strapped and screwed down - nothing is shifting. I don't use hot melt to keep my parts to the board. So, I think I'm okay here.

Yes, I believe in God, and Jesus Christ as my Savior. Yes, "Aletheia" is the Greek word for "truth". No, I'm not a "Communist". I guess the inference here is that I say "truth" when in fact I lie? Lying about what?

I don't know what the point is with the Jubilee network. It was showcased here on the forum and Jordan was really happy with it. I never lied or hid where the design came from. I asked Al for a "one off", and he gave me the okay. The coils; the DCR for the low pass coils was kept below Roy's recommended specification. I didn't use Litz in the high pass because like I've said in several posts, everyone is attenuating between 3 and 12dB. What does a little less loss matter in that context? Does anyone here actually think I wouldn't have made some effort to see if I could hear any differences between the various coil types. Let's see, oh yeah, the ground wires. I thought I did a nice job with that. I used 16 AWG tin coated copper and strung it along the edge of the board. It was under a good deal of tension, and as far as I know, it's still just fine. Jordan did email with some questions, and I referred him to Al, since it was Al's design.

Layouts: this is nitpicking. He admits that I get away with certain things because I'm working at audio frequencies. I'd like to remind everyone that I'm working at audio frequencies. If there are a lot of parts, I tend to lay things out like the schematic shows. Layouts are definitely a weakness of mine. Nevertheless, I feel good about my builds (and Austin's). They're solid, look nice, and I have no problem with the idea of putting the current stuff up against anything.

Note: I suck so bad that he chose me to build his stuff.

I don't need simulation software because I don't do network design. My point is that only acoustic plots show you what you really have. I'm also tired of the impedance nonsense. Seriously, how many of those can you look at before your eyes just glaze over.

I asked UT to build an autoformer the way they would build it if they had to use it. I wanted the best. The 3670 is what they sent me - it's a nice unit. He may have a point about the frame rusting over time, but it's going to be a while. I'll check into what it might cost to hit them with some varnish. I don't even know if you can put varnish over wax. At any rate, they STRONGLY recommended wax.

If anyone has any questions related to the comments on that page, I'll do my best to answer them.

Bible Thumper? Absolutely.

[Deang]

What negativity. :-)

[Arkytype]

Deano,

 

You wrote: I also won't be using Litz coils because I don't like the way they're made

 

What is it about the construction of a Litz wire inductor that you don’t like? The shape? The specific gravity?

 

Then you wrote:They (Litz coils) do measure a little better in the area that counts……..

 

What parameter did you measure with your $44.50 LCR meter? Certainly not Q, not dissipation factor, not accurate DCR.

 

And finally, you wrote: Coils should have no air between their windings and the windings need to be rigid.

 

What proof do you offer to support this claim? Do you have definitive measurements that show the superiority of, say, a foil wound inductor over a Litz wire inductor?

 

Here’s a quote that’s been hanging above all my measurement benches for the past 35+ years. It’s as applicable today as it was in 1883. Perhaps you should heed Lord Kelvin’s advice.

 

I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of Science, whatever the matter may be. Lord Kelvin, 1883

 

Lee

[Deang]

Data on Litz performance was posted here long ago.

If you would like to learn about proper coil construction and the ramifications of poor design, I would encourage you to read more. You could also purchase a Jantzen air core for a good example of a properly designed air core inductor.

Stop trolling.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Deang

[Arkytype]

Deano,

 

You wrote: Data on Litz performance was posted here long ago.

 

Yeah, I found the data on a nine-year-old thread where you were also praising the Litz coils to high heaven. Oops! I have listed below some good reading for those willing to set aside their prejudices.

 

You wrote: I also won't be using Litz coils because I don't like the way they're made. They do measure a little better in the area that counts, but the loss reduction really becomes a non-factor as soon as the midrange and tweeter output is reduced. In other words, you gain a little and then lose it when you attenuate (perceptually) -- it's much to do about nothing. Coils should have no air between their windings and the windings need to be rigid.

 

Just in case you’ve forgotten all that Al taught you about network design for the past 10+ years, here’s a quick refresher:

 

The total insertion loss of a network is an aggregate of all the losses of each component. To go gaga over the use of some magical dielectric in a capacitor and ignore the fact that the inductor is the weakest link in a network is folly. While the "Q" of a low-quality capacitor might measure 200, the best inductor might measure 100. Litz wire inductors are demonstrably better than solid wire or foil inductors at tweeter frequencies. When you shelve the midrange or tweeter output level external to the filter, the advantage of a Litz wire inductor is that it becomes frequency and level independent.

 

To say that their advantage is a non-factor as soon as the midrange and tweeter is reduced indicates the shelving was done within the filter or that the designer does not understand the fundamentals of filter behavior with losses.  

 

Coils should have no air between their windings and the windings need to be rigid.

 

Why don't you offer some concrete evidence to prove this; better yet, post a link that everyone can read for themselves. I suspect this quote is just like one of dozens I've read that you've posted over the years---just subjective blather that some low-information members take as gospel.

 

Posted by Deang on 03 July 2006 - 11:30 AM in 2-Channel Home Audio

 

Steep slopes. The best imaging networks I ever heard was Al's ESNs.

 

Posted 17 October 2015 - 09:23 PM

 

I don't care for the ESN designs. The sound is dry, two-dimensional, and the transients are practically non-existent. In small rooms, you can hear the sound moving between the drivers, which has to be one of the most unnatural phenomena I've ever experienced from a loudspeaker. 

 

Posted by Deang on 28 March 2008 - 06:25 AM in 2-Channel Home Audio

 

The key to surviving on the Klipsch forum is saying one thing and doing another. Do as I do not as I say.  

 

You wrote: Stop trolling.

 

When you stop making open-ended statements such as, "Coils should have no air gap." and not continue the sentence with "because my measurements confirm such and such or, here's a peer-reviewed paper showing the advantages of a coil with no air gap.", then I'll stop "trolling". All I'm doing is calling into question your unsubstantiated statements. If you take that as a personal attack, then run tell a moderator that you are being picked on.    

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/151287-foil-inductors-why-the-new-trend/page-2

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/66857-inductor-face-off-ii/

 

Lee

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Deang]

Al seems to think that the SuperAA was derived from the Universal. This is not true. What is true is that I had been using John Albright's DHA2 in my Klipschorns. The DHA2 is a first order network with fixed settings. When I built the Universals, I thought midrange sounded too recessed, and it didn't matter what settings I used. I called Al and in the course of conversation told him that I preferred the first order networks like the DHA2 and Klipsch Type A. I mentioned that what would be cool would be a network like the DHA2 with adjustable attenuation. He told me I would have to lift the common connection at the barrier strip for the squawker.

In post #6 in the thread below, Al clearly states that he did not design the DHA2.

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/118521-from-dhas-to-alk-jrs-complete/?hl=super#entry1311194

I actually sold my Universals and started modifying the DHA2 networks I was using. What I wanted was a first order filter with adjustable attenuation. Please read carefully what I say in the second paragraph of the last post.

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/142793-curious-about-dha2-crossovers/page-2?hl=super

I called Al and told him that it sounded really good, and thanked him for his help. When he saw pictures of the build, he thought it was cool that I was just using two jumpers off of the barrier strip instead of soldering a lead to every tap on the autoformer. He immediately adopted this practice with his builds.

Later, and I'm really not sure when I decided to do this (possibly after I purchased my Beymas), I decided to change the 1st order tweeter section to third order. I used an online calculator to get the values for 3rd order Butterworth.

In the next thread, please see post #17, where I again state that I began with the DHA2. Then see the schematic in post #19, dated April of 2005. While it shows the optimized tweeter values that Al gave me, notice the upper right hand corner where it shows "KBL", the original name of the network that I gave it.

When I told Al what I had done, he wanted to see the schematic. He said my tweeter circuit was "a kluge" because the impedance was unstable. He said he could fix it, and that fix resulted in my .20mH becoming .15mH, and my 6.8uF becoming 3.9uF. He then tells me that it's basically one part removed from the Universal, which I thought was funny - until he informes me that I will need to pay him royalties if I want to sell it (impedance optimization is expensive). However, I no longer use those values, but use the values given to me by DJK. The SuperX is back to its original form, but now includes 1dB steps in attenuation - an idea actually planted in my head by Bob and suggested to Al by me. It resulted in the new autoformer and build changes. The Universal and SuperX were modified at roughly the same time. They are again nearly identical with the exception of the one part removed and parts quality.

1) The network began as a DHA2, a network NOT designed by Al - and not the Universal.

2) Evidence suggests that I've been consistant with this assertion.

3) The schematic shows that it was the "KBL" before it was the "SuperAA". You can draw your own conclusions about that.

[Deang]

I've seen that plot many times.

I've changed my mind about some things. People do that from time to time. You're apparently not reading my posts - I've explained why I believe it's a big zero issue.

The statements were substantiated in the past, sorry you missed it. Most here know exactly why I build the way I do.

[Max2]

 

Put your pom poms down and think about your own character here.  He's not welcome here (once again) and If you are going to keep chumming his business there will be plenty here to add a negative to that as a warning to "unknowns" about doing business with the jerk.

 

Wow! is that a threat to Dave and others for exercising his free speech? 

 

What rank do you hold in the Thought Police?

 

Lee 

 

 

 

Nope, Im just here calling a spade a spade.

 

I have been here a few years and maybe his (Al) spill was a big act and maybe not.  I was actually thrilled to see John, Dean, Bob and Al all in one thread. Once things headed south because of him, it was just that. Now that that is all behind us, yeah, Im a little insulted about people giving him advertising here.  Some of the folks on the forum may have financial or business ties to him and thats non of my business.  This is the last I will mention it in this thread, but Im pretty shocked and I bet a few mods are as well that some of the staples in this forum would come back in here giving his business a plug.   

[Marvel]

Peace Deano! Love you brother...

 

I still have my DHA2 crossovers, ready to go into my LS that I WILL get done this winter.

 

Bruce

[Deang]

Hi Bruce!

Lee, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not even reading your posts. You and Al completely disgust me.

[Marvel]

After reading all your posts, I understand why you thought I wouldn't hear too much of a difference when I had those crossovers from the roadshow.

 

Very cool!

[maxima95]

Why don't you offer some concrete evidence to prove this; better yet, post a link that everyone can read for themselves. I suspect this quote is just like one of dozens I've read that you've posted over the years---just subjective blather that some low-information members take as gospel.

 

Could you tell us what a "low-information" member is ?

 

Which "low-information" members are you referring to?

 

I take it you are a "high-information" member?

[Deang]

Lmao.

Sorry.

It's coil 101 stuff. Examine any well made inductor and it will be treated or potted so the windings don't move against each other. This happens when the air is displaced with something that hardens. You can use google books, Wikipedia, etc., if you'd like to read more.

Any correlary? Yes? No?

[jimjimbo]

I've sat back for several weeks reading through these very, very self serving threads.  I've been a customer of both ALK and Aletheia, so I'm not talking (completely) out of my rear end.

 

1.  If you've been banned, you should stay banned, permanently.  Why the mods and admin permitted  Al K. back in to spout his vitriol, I just don't understand.  Not to mention that he obviously did himself a serious disservice.  I find it quite funny that he can trash the decent participants on this forum with ridiculous statements on his site, and yet still extoll the virtues of PWK and Klipsch speakers....

 

2.  Dean, you continue to perpetuate this "discussion" (I don't know what else to call it...), and spend what seems to be an incredible amount of time crafting your posts and responses, while at the same time not too long ago, you admitted that your business process was a disaster, you had fallen far behind in satisfying your customers orders, and oh, woe is you.....How's that working out for you?  

 

3.  And pretty much because this has all been so freaking annoying.....Dean, I told you some time ago that I would probably post a review of the crossovers that you built for my Chorus II's, that took over 5 months for you to complete (after you "forgot" about them), and that were not built on the platform within the units that I specified, even after I gave you the go ahead multiple times with virtually no financial limit......Well, here it is....After enlisting the help of some very fine friends for a lengthy session of evaluation, with lots of different source material, each and every one of us came to the same conclusion...huge waste of money.  Sad, but true.  And, while you may not care because you've had so many fabulously satisfied customers....I do care.  A real shame.

 

4.  I've learned one major lesson.  PWK and Klipsch engineering know their shit, I won't be trying to second guess their expertise any longer.

 

Oh yea, Happy Thanksgiving.  I'm done here for a while.

[Deang]

This again. I should drop the entire five mile long email trail into this thread. We had a disagreement. It happens. So how many times am I supposed to apologize?

I told you I would only build on wood if I couldn't figure out how to strap the Mundorfs securely to the PCB. I'm not doing this again.

A cap rolled off the bench and a lead broke off. The part was back ordered. What did I forget?

The last time I built something for someone with "virtually no financial limit", it was around $1200. Is that what you meant. Sure wish I would have know that up front, I would have charged you a lot more.

It doesn't take me very long at all to write out responses. I don't know what you're inferring. I have a couple of people tag-teaming on me. One guy is hiding behind his web site like a coward while the other stalks and agitates me. I guess I should just let it go?

Still behind, but a little better. Since everyone over here is working full time with OT thrown in, and Deb being sick -- it's just not possible to run it the way I used to.

A lot of people got burnt over the last six months, that's why I've been turning down work. We will probably start building one or two at a time and putting them on AudiogoN.

So, did you compare these to some stock units?

Wow, a negative review and a healthy dose of criticism too. I guess it was just time to be humbled.

I thought the guy behind the curtain was a wizard. What a disappointment.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Deang

[jimjimbo]

What do you mean, this again? I have never even mentioned this on the forum. and yes, I did compare them to some stock units. Why would you think anything else? No, your product was the disappointment.

[jimjimbo]

And by the way Dean, I do NOT give you permission to reproduce any of my email, although if you did you would be in for some serious embarrassment.

[Wolfbane]

Perhaps everyone involved so far should take a break from this 'discussion' and do something actually productive?

 

Laundromat owners are the only real winners in a pissing contest.

[Deang]

"This again", round and round about the board thing.

We did those listening tests too with some Chorus IIs and a vinyl rig during an AKfest several years ago. I did the work on site and then we fired them up. The room was mesmerized by the awfulness of it.

If I'm the one that's going to "suffer serious embarrassment", why not dump it in for everyone to read? Or was that some kind of veiled threat?

I can source Mylar and electrolytic capacitors. If you don't like what you're hearing, I can revert them back to stock - on my dime - and I'll pay shipping both ways. You'll also have them back in 6 days or less.

In case anyone is curious, Jim's capacitors were replaced using Mundorf film and tin foils in the tweeter section and a ClarityCap for the midrange. Anyone familiar with the circuit knows that the stock midrange capacitor is an electrolytic! In over a decade of doing these, this is an absolute first.