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Want to upgrade but what am I missing?


Gentle Ben

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I'm a newbee to the board but a strong 65 years and love both my oldies on CD and Blu-ray action. I'm a Marine combat vet of Vietnam so I like it LOUD. (But clear and nuanced. I can still hear and appreciate quality.) So I have a lot of questions.

 

My current set up is only a year or two old and I thought I had something really nice until I started reading these forums. LOL!

 

Currently I have a 9.2 home theater system set up in my main living area/den = 21'x18'x8' ceilings (popcorn removed). NOTE: Remoivng the popcorn made my wife happy and it looks nice, but I think that in doing so I screwed up my accoustics.

 

Speakers: A pair of RF-82II fronts, RC-62II center, two RS-52II surrounds, two RS-42II rears and two RS-42II front presence.

Subwoofers: A new R-115SW in the right front and an SW-112 in the right rear. Not much room to maneuver subs.

External amp: A new Emotiva XPA-7 (driving fronts, center, surrounds and rears)

Receiver/pre-amp: Yamaha Adventage RX-3010 (driving front presence speakers only)

TV: 65" Panasonic Plasma VT50 (damn you Panasonic for discontinuing plasma)

Blu-ray player: Panasonic DMP-BDT500

CD Changer: Onkyo DX-C370 (6 disc) hooked to Yamaha via optical, old but reliable

Turntable: Basic Audio-Technica automatic $100 thing that plays my "records." Upgrade is a must but I don't listen to vinyl that often for it to be a priority.

 

I realize my setup is neither that backwaterish nor is it surfing the high quality world. Hell, there are turntable cartridges that cost more than my system. I'm not sure I can even afford to read this forum.

 

What would I notice most in sound quality if I upgraded from the RF-82IIs to RF-7IIs, and the RC-62II to an RC-64II? Would I have to change out all my surrounds and rears etc. as well? Is the RF-7 that much better than the 82s for so much more money? Or should I consider the less expensive RP-280F? Is the RP-280F much better sonically than the 82s? I know it adds Atmos.

 

I have read where Yamaha does not play well with Klipsch speakers. Why not? What's the problem? Emotiva people are also not that crazy about a Yamaha/Klipsch marriage. Go Marantz? Or Denon? I do not like Pioneers, had some bad experiences in the past. I also owned Onkyo receivers in the past and did not care for their dull tone.

 

I am looking for more mid tones or brilliance while watching TV. My current setup has a lot of bass and plenty highs. Blu-rays sound awesome, thanks a lot to the R-115SW. (Guess I should have never listened to the B&W demos at the Magnolia Store. Sheesh!)

 

Considering my setup, what should be my next step? Speakers? Receiver? Both?

 

Sorry, a lot of questions ... but I warned you. Fire away, I know how to duck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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What would I notice most in sound quality if I upgraded from the RF-82IIs to RF-7IIs

Less harsh tweeter, like less super high hissing and whatnot

lower crossover combined with larger tweet, so like the snap from kick drums where the beater hits the skin (yes it comes through the tweeters), or cymbal crashes, will be thicker and more realistic

more lively acoustic guitars, like flamenco music will come alive more and be more colorful

 

Would I have to change out all my surrounds and rears etc. as well?

Not really, the 62's are thicker and louder but they're the same tweets. You can but I wouldn't make it a huge priority.

 

Is the RF-7 that much better than the 82s for so much more money?

Big upgrade in the compression driver (tweeter) as well as the finish.

 

Or should I consider the less expensive RP-280F? Is the RP-280F much better sonically than the 82s? I know it adds Atmos.

Gotta get the "FA" version for Atmos. I wouldn't swap out just the 82's for the normal 280's. The Atmos enabled ones with the real veneer yeah maybe if you wanted Atmos, the integration of them is so much nicer than the modules sitting on top of something. For music, if you want an upgrade, look at the RF-7ii.

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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What I'd do if this were mine:

1. Ditch the SW-112 and get another R-115SW then see if you can get them both up front if at all possible.

2. Based on your description of what you're missing and enjoy, I'd go with RF-7ii's as the mains if you listen to music. Of course at that point you'd need a matching RC-64ii. The RP-280FA's would be nice but it's not going to be a huge difference compared to what you've got now in terms of what's coming out of the mains.

3. Add some acoustic panels based on your description of the worse sound after popcorn removal. Get some premade solutions or make your own out of something like Owens Corning 703.

4. Since you have outboarded amps, consider some DSP's or EQ's. If you want more mids and need to compensate for hearing loss, consider looking at a solution from MiniDSP not just for the subs like is popular but also for the highs. You'd have total control over the frequency response at that point. Invest $100 in a microphone and learn REW or buy an OmniMic system. Or call your friendly neighborhood home theater calibrator and he can hook you up.

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If midrange is your goal you may want to ask other guys about their 3 way systems. Sancho and his Heresy's or Scrappy and his Palladiums. I like my 7's but a 2.5" midrange horn may fill in the gap that you're missing better.

If you felt like starting from scratch and spending big bucks, there's always stuff like the KI-396 or Cinema but I doubt you'd want to do this with a TV. That compression driver is ridiculously nice though. :) Lots of stuff depends on budget.

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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Thanks so much for all of your prompt replies, welcomes and appreciation. I had no idea a forum like this could be so responsive. It sure does convince me that I at least have the right brand of speakers with Klipsch. Then again, I've always had Klipsch. I just need to get the right ones, get 'em in synch ... and then pay for them.

 

I like the idea of a second R-115SW but space would be a problem. It's a monster but I found a good place for the first sub at front right. A few inches always makes a difference in shooting, football, sex and speakers. Is there a specific problem with my SW-112 or does it just under perform, like I think it does? Would an R-112SW help? I know the magic is in that 15-inch woofer, but is the 12-inch woofer in the R-112SW much better than in the SW-112? If the R-112SW would be an improvement, I may be able to work it into a left front position rather than the rear right where the current one is now.

 

Also, is my Yamaha Aventage 3010 adequate and compatible with Klipsch. My ears say a big yes for blu-ray but not so much for music but I might be missing out on something in the pairing -- like maybe the speakers and not the receiver. I had heard that the Aventage series had ironed out some of its problems with Klipsch. I paid $1,700 for the 3010 a few years ago and I now have $2,100 or so  for a replacement if called for. If I can wait another year and put the money into other components, so much the better. Is Marantz or Denon a better fit with Klipsch than Yamaha Aventage?

 

Sorry, hate to be a bother but in some endeavors sage advice still trumps blind research.

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Welcome!

 

I used a Yamaha in the '90s, and it sounded fine with Klipschorn fronts.  It is still kicking, and I am currently using one channel of it for one of the surrounds (with Heresy II).  It still sounds fine.  See below.

 

The average Blu-ray is recorded better than the average CD.  SACD sounds better than CD to my ears most of the time, perhaps because the mixers (or re-mixers) are aware that audiophiles will be listening.

Edited by garyrc
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Thanks so much for all of your prompt replies, welcomes and appreciation. I had no idea a forum like this could be so responsive. It sure does convince me that I at least have the right brand of speakers with Klipsch. Then again, I've always had Klipsch. I just need to get the right ones, get 'em in synch ... and then pay for them.

 

I like the idea of a second R-115SW but space would be a problem. It's a monster but I found a good place for the first sub at front right. A few inches always makes a difference in shooting, football, sex and speakers. Is there a specific problem with my SW-112 or does it just under perform, like I think it does? Would an R-112SW help? I know the magic is in that 15-inch woofer, but is the 12-inch woofer in the R-112SW much better than in the SW-112? If the R-112SW would be an improvement, I may be able to work it into a left front position rather than the rear right where the current one is now.

 

Also, is my Yamaha Aventage 3010 adequate and compatible with Klipsch. My ears say a big yes for blu-ray but not so much for music but I might be missing out on something in the pairing -- like maybe the speakers and not the receiver. I had heard that the Aventage series had ironed out some of its problems with Klipsch. I paid $1,700 for the 3010 a few years ago and I now have $2,100 or so  for a replacement if called for. If I can wait another year and put the money into other components, so much the better. Is Marantz or Denon a better fit with Klipsch than Yamaha Aventage?

 

Sorry, hate to be a bother but in some endeavors sage advice still trumps blind research.

 

 

 

Gentle Ben,

 

First and foremost, welcome to the Forum Dude! :)

 

As you stated, blind research is NOT the way to go, so why not let your Ears do the deciding?

 

We are having a big get together in April in Hope, Arkansas where the Klipsch magic all began!

 

We pitch in cash and feed the workers at the factory. After they are finished eating, we eat what is left, then it is off to tour the factory to see where the RF-7IIs are built as well as all that lovely Heritage series and Pro Cinema stuff. We get a tour of the lab and the An-echoic chamber and get a listening session with a pair of the affore mentioned RF-7IIs, and a pair of the Top Paladium Series speakers the PF-39s and then they switch over to a pair of 60th anniversary Klipschorns all in the same room with the same equipment so you can get a feel for each of their sonic signatures. Next, we tour the Klipsch Museum with commentary from Jim Hunter.

 

Later, we go about 20 miles out from Hope to Rodney Newtons. Rodney has 610 acres and there are 640 acres in a square mile. There are 13 ponds on the property and the largest is 79 acres and is stocked with Bass for catch and release fishing. There is also a big pole barn / club house with an 80 foot bar and a Klipsch Pro pair of speakers. Kevin Harmon will be bringing his 4 stacks of KP-600 Pro Speakers to listen to, last year a neighbor called that the google map said was 1.5 miles away as the crow flies because he could hear Michael Jacksons Thriller at 4:30 AM inside his bed inside his home. Last year a couple of different guys brought Corn Wall speakers to the club house and there were both VRD mono blocks amps, SS amps and other tube gear. Food is excellent and you can camp at Rodney's as the club house has two bathrooms and 2 separate showers, or you can stay at the motel for $50 a night. Last year, I think there were three pairs of Heresys at the Motel and several guys brought turn tables and vinyl. Also, the county is dry, so bring your own Liquor to Rodney's! Police are not allowed on Rodney's property unless he calls them.

 

The bottom line is that if you drag your butt out, you will have a lot of fun and you will get to hear the RF-7IIs plus alot of other Klipsch before you invest your money!

 

Roger

Edited by twistedcrankcammer
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Regarding the subs, two of the same is easier to integrate plus you'd likely get more low extension. Having them both on one side of the room is awkward as well.

Regarding the yamaha, it may be a bigger deal if it were powering the speakers, but the emotiva is doing that. For movies I can't picture how the brand of preamp would not be compatible with the brand of speakers. Certainly a flagship marantz may have better features but saying the preamp signal isn't compatible with klipsch speakers is something I can't wrap my head around.

Where are you from? If you're curious about marantz and rf-7ii's and anywhere near western ky just come visit me and I can demo them.

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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Thanks so much for all of your prompt replies, welcomes and appreciation. I had no idea a forum like this could be so responsive. It sure does convince me that I at least have the right brand of speakers with Klipsch. Then again, I've always had Klipsch. I just need to get the right ones, get 'em in synch ... and then pay for them.

 

I like the idea of a second R-115SW but space would be a problem. It's a monster but I found a good place for the first sub at front right. A few inches always makes a difference in shooting, football, sex and speakers. Is there a specific problem with my SW-112 or does it just under perform, like I think it does? Would an R-112SW help? I know the magic is in that 15-inch woofer, but is the 12-inch woofer in the R-112SW much better than in the SW-112? If the R-112SW would be an improvement, I may be able to work it into a left front position rather than the rear right where the current one is now.

 

Also, is my Yamaha Aventage 3010 adequate and compatible with Klipsch. My ears say a big yes for blu-ray but not so much for music but I might be missing out on something in the pairing -- like maybe the speakers and not the receiver. I had heard that the Aventage series had ironed out some of its problems with Klipsch. I paid $1,700 for the 3010 a few years ago and I now have $2,100 or so  for a replacement if called for. If I can wait another year and put the money into other components, so much the better. Is Marantz or Denon a better fit with Klipsch than Yamaha Aventage?

 

Sorry, hate to be a bother but in some endeavors sage advice still trumps blind research.

 

Nothing "wrong" in the traditional sense. Its about balance. The reason I mentioned to consider adding a second (matching) R-115SW was to even out the room. Every room is different, but with your current (mixed 12" & 15") both positioned on the right side, it could throw the balance off, with the subs dominating the right side of your space. That placement could mitigate or adversely effect the mid's you are missing. If space allows, try several different placements with your existing subs such as front right & left. Your current 12" & 15" might work well together, but since you are considering the upgrade itch... 2 matching subs will add to the overall balance even better.

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I am down in Baton Rouge so a trip up to Hope, Ark., in April would not be a big problem. When in April? And what are the specifics of the arrangement? Who do I contact to get in on the gathering?

 

Today I was able to move my SW-112 from the right rear up to the left front position. After testing the tones, I raised the gain on the SW-112 to just a bit higher than the R-115SW. Both are at the the full LFE setting. My RF-82iis are set to large and all others set to small at 80Hz (though I am experimenting with my RC-62ii at 60Hz and 80Hz). Will soon be testing a blu-ray (probably War Horse) and a Cat Stevens CD. Will let you know soon if it made a difference. By the way, should my subwoofer arrangement on my Yamaha setup be set to "left and right" or to "monoaural" for both?

 

Will probably keep the Yamaha 3010 another year or two and spend my money this fall on an RF-7ii pair and an RC-64ii but it will require some reworking of my entertainment center to fit the larger 64ii. Can you get a better deal on those speakers if you drive up to Hope, Ark., and deal with the factory direct? Me and my dog would be up to that trip to save a few bucks.

 

Best price on a new RF-7ii I can find is at Amazon at $1,398 each shipped. Any better places? Finding good, used RF-7iis is pretty damn difficult.

 

Sorry, I just can't fit a second R-115SW but an R-112SW will fit. Would that help, or just a waste of money.

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I am down in Baton Rouge so a trip up to Hope, Ark., in April would not be a big problem. When in April? And what are the specifics of the arrangement? Who do I contact to get in on the gathering?

 

Today I was able to move my SW-112 from the right rear up to the left front position. After testing the tones, I raised the gain on the SW-112 to just a bit higher than the R-115SW. Both are at the the full LFE setting. My RF-82iis are set to large and all others set to small at 80Hz (though I am experimenting with my RC-62ii at 60Hz and 80Hz). Will soon be testing a blu-ray (probably War Horse) and a Cat Stevens CD. Will let you know soon if it made a difference. By the way, should my subwoofer arrangement on my Yamaha setup be set to "left and right" or to "monoaural" for both?

 

Will probably keep the Yamaha 3010 another year or two and spend my money this fall on an RF-7ii pair and an RC-64ii but it will require some reworking of my entertainment center to fit the larger 64ii. Can you get a better deal on those speakers if you drive up to Hope, Ark., and deal with the factory direct? Me and my dog would be up to that trip to save a few bucks.

 

Best price on a new RF-7ii I can find is at Amazon at $1,398 each shipped. Any better places? Finding good, used RF-7iis is pretty damn difficult.

 

Sorry, I just can't fit a second R-115SW but an R-112SW will fit. Would that help, or just a waste of money.

Glad you could you experiment with different sub locations... proper placement (within your specific room) can make a big impact-improvement. I'd set your 82's to "Small" & let your subs handle LFE. My RF-7's are set to small (as well as all my other speakers; center & surrounds).. that helps to define the sound stage... it could help with you Mid's (that were perceived to be lacking). 

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An alternative to the RF-7 ll... is the RF-7. A pair of those can be found very reasonable in the secondary market (CL) & even right here on the forum. Keep your eye out for them in your area & you could land a great deal. Same for the RC-64 ll... another (less expensive) alternative would be the RC-7. 

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I'm surprised nobody has recommended shifting over to the heritage line yet..... ;)

 

The THX Ultra2 subs are fairly potent too. I've not heard any of the newest subs, but one thing that is great about the Ultra2 is the port design causes a ton of air to blow. It can make explosions quite convincing...

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Best price on a new RF-7ii I can find is at Amazon at $1,398 each shipped. Any better places? Finding good, used RF-7iis is pretty damn difficult.

Try Mike at AcousticSoundDesign. Of course the more you buy the better the deal.

And welcome to the Forums. Search around a little, its not hard to find info about the Hope Gathering.

Oh yea also I don't think Klipsch wants you showing up at the factory to buy 1 pair of RF7 IIs :rolleyes:

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