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Cornwall III or Heresy III Matched to Modern Electronics?


Darren HEal

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While AVRs are not generally as good as separates, using a good AV preamp/processor and a good multichannel power amp gets around that IMO.

 

My sentiments exactly.  I have heard a good number of two channel systems with great gear and still use my avr/amp combo.  It's a matter of personal taste. :)  If the OP has not purchased the Cornwall's, get some La Scala's.

Edited by derrickdj1
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I, too, have been a bit snobby about A/V recievers, but then there were some B&K recievers. 

 

I replaced my outstanding ACT-3, with final upgrade, with an Integra 80.2 pre/pro after a lightning strike made the ACT-3 unrepairable.  Both have given excellent performance in 2-channel, regularly letting the magic out.  ;)   In my experience, good electronics are good, no matter the age, or technology. 

 

Also, while there is no need for monster amps with any Klipsch speaker, don't go too small with rated power.  Even though you will typically run at 0.1 watt, peaks of 20 dB are common enough and higher are possible.  It's too bad few manufacturers sell a 50 watt/channel amp with a very high Class A bias. 

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I, too, have been a bit snobby about A/V recievers, but then there were some B&K recievers.

 

I understand the sentiment also.  I have many times considered utilizing my well liked Cambridge Audio 640A v2 integrated amp full time with my Heresy I's in my spare bedroom.  The only thing preventing me from doing so is that behemoth NAD T773 AVR that can really make the Heresys sing.  Plus it perfectly matches my NAD C542 CD player.  I know I would regret it if I ever sold it.  Now I do give the edge to the Cambridge Audio integrated for stereo music but only by a little bit.

 

Bill

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Add another Cornwall vote here.

 

With regard to HT, I've learned that sonically matching speakers is critical to good sound. I.e., match Heritage with Heritage, KLF series with KLF, etc. Then and only then do I concern myself with finding a sub that fits into the system. Just my opinions, but they are based on real screw ups and real successes from the past.

 

Good luck!

 

I agree. It may be difficult to find a single Cornwall I think but having 2 on either side of an AT Screen and one behind, even a "beater" one would be an incredible sound stage. Then add some Hereseys to the back for surround. Then he can use his AVR as a pre-amp for the mains for music and still have a sub out and then let the built in AVR amp run the surrounds. It would probably be worth getting a matching amp for the center though. Its funny in that HT was not even a remote concept when PWK designed the Heritage stuff but they are amazing for it. You just hear every little detail in the movie and it sucks you in like you are there.

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There was no home theater, but PWK was a big advocate of three channel stereo as well as the proper way to position speakers so that the soundstage remained stable throughout a large percentage of the room. He was not an advocate of speaker placements that required one to sit in a tiny sweet spot.

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If it was me, I would look for a nice pair of used CWs over buying the CWIII. The Heresys sound nice but definitely need the sub.

That's if you have to make a choice.

You can buy a nice pair/set of Scalas if you're patient ( 3 with amps just sold for $1200) for front and center and then let the CWs bump you for rears.

 

Mark

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My vote would be for stock H3s with a sub.  I have a slightly larger (wider) room and I am very pleased with my two-channel setup:  H3's plus rythmik F12-G sub - fills the room no problem.  I didn't care for the H2's I heard a few years back - I think Klipsch did a good job with the H3s.  My wife actually likes them too - better WAF than CW3s for sure.

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My NAD pre/pro of a few years ago was good, but had residual noise (from beyond the volume control) through Khorns. 

 

Was that model the T163?  If so, they had hum/hiss issues that can be heard through highly efficient speakers.  My T773 AVR has a slight hum/hiss that is barely detectable through my Heresy I's.

 

Bill

 

 

Yes, it sure was the T163!  Good call!  My Marantz pre/pro (see below) is silent until you get within about 3 feet of the Klipschorns, where slight hiss can be heard.  Khorns are (maybe) 8 or 9 db more efficient than Heresy Is in the hiss range.

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IMHO HT receivers still can't produce the same sound quality for music that a "proper stereo" setup can.

 

This is not accurate in my experience. 

 

I suppose if your using entry-level AVRs from a few years ago with poorly done class D power amplifiers, it might be correct. 

 

Try something with an ICEpower (B&O) amplifier section--I think that you'll be amazed what you hear driving Cornwalls or better Klipsch Heritage loudspeakers. 

 

Any higher quality AVP with quality power amplifiers, connected by digital active crossovers will be even better, especially when you correct for room acoustics, driver delays, and loudspeaker channel delays.  They will beat "proper stereo" setups without these kind of corrections.

 

YMMV.

 

Chris

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  • 1 year later...

My current stereo setup, in my 11' x 12' x 9' carpeted  home 'office', has a pair of '77 vintage Heresy's driven by a brand new Emotiva A-100 BAS-X (50 Wpc very clean class AB SS amp.) whose input is an Onkyo C-7030 CDP. The power amp has a volume control and a headphone jack, with it's 110 dB SNR, it's quiet enough to be a direct drive headphone amp! I did put an Emotiva UCF (In-line volume control.) in line with it's similar predecessor, the a-100 mini-X, to see whether my new-to-me Heresys would really need my JBL SUB 550P subwoofer's 'help', as I had done originally last year with my RB-81ii's. They were a marginal help at best - with either speaker setup! And - I even did the 'subwoofer crawl' to find the best placement for the sub. I decided to apply the 'k.i.s.s.' principle, especially after last winter's discovery of the sub's AC cord having been disconnected - for several months. My 'test' CD is my original Graceland by Paul Simon, along with a Verve print of Getz/Byrd and Jazz Samba. Even the fretless bass sounds great on the Heresys - and the 50 Wpc leaves plenty of reserve for my listening, which is pretty wide in scope. I even just played the Mama's and the Papa's "If you can believe your eyes and ears" album - including 'Monday, Monday' - which has a crispness and clarity I never noticed before. The Heresys are 'enough' for my stereo music listening. My DG compilation of von Karajan conducting the Berlin Philharmoniker in Tchaikovsky, especially '1812', sounds full-bodied. Heck  even Clapton... and Adele - sound fantastic!

 

 

 

 

 

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Not sure about the history of the Cornwall, but the Heresy has changed through its generations.

 

Heresy I - rated 96dB/W/m and nominally rated 8 ohms impedance, but the minimum impedance is 10.2 ohms at 150Hz.
Heresy II - don't know
Heresy III - rated 99dB/W/m but although nominally rated 8 ohms impedance the minimum impedance is 4.2 ohms at 150Hz.

The sensitivity spec is with respect to voltage, not watts. The spec is 2.83V, which into 8 ohms is 1 watt, but 2.83V into 4 ohms is 2 W (2.83V into 4.2 ohm is 1.9 watts). The difference between 2 watts and 1 watt is -3dB. And 99dB - 3dB = 96dB. Assuming the Heresy III more sensitive is incorrect. The Heresy III needs close to twice the watts of the Heresy I to hit the same sound level. Maybe the III trades some sensitivity for a little more bass response?

The international standard is that the nominal impedance specification is to be no greater than the minimum impedance times a factor of 1.25.
For Heresy I, they could have been spec'ed as 12 ohm nominal speakers (12.75 ohm) instead of 8 ohm nominal.
Heresy II - don't know
Heresy III, they should have been spec'ed as 5 ohm nominal speakers (5.25 ohm) instead of 8 ohm nominal.

 

I have Heresy I, not saying they are better, just providing info that may or may not be important to your question about matching.

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Thanks for you info, pauln. According to Klipsch site info, the Heresy response is 50 - 17,000 Hz +/- 5 dB, while their spec sheet on the Heresy iii states 58 - 20,000 Hz +/- 3 dB. While no 2.83V SPL is stated in the old Heresy's advert, the current Heresy iii states 99 dB. Additionally, my front-ported bass reflex RB-81ii speaker's spec sheet states a freq response of 44 - 24,000 Hz +/- 3 dB and an SPL of 97 dB. Something is strange here as you can hear a wee difference in levels when changing between the Heresy and the slightly louder big 8" Klipsch bookshelf speakers. I realize that their bass extension would be audibly lower than the Heresy's, but an SPL difference of 1 dB likely wouldn't be noticed. Still, while the mid & top end may be marginally better on the Hiii's when compared to my '77-vintage Heresys - blame the Ti diaphragms - my 68 year old ears likely wouldn't enjoy the improvements. I do believe the bass is better from the older Heresys, too... but that could just be wishful thinking!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Recently purchased a set of HIII's  running with Onkyo TXSR-805/ Technics SL-1200MK5/ Onkyo CD/ and BSR EQ-3000 (2 channel setup)

 

The speakers are only a couple months old and for jazz/blues etc. I think they run just fine with no sub (tweak the EQ) but for some of the harder stuff I do find they are missing a bit in the bottom end...Im trying to stay in the 1k range for a sub so was wondering if anyone could make a suggestion based on my setup

 

-B

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The argument on can I use an avr for 2 ch music vs an integrated amp comes up often.  The question is not which is better but, how good is the avr that I'm using.  My set has both and I don't like one more than the other.  Many good avrs don't skimp on power/power supply, processor/preamp is house in a separate cabinet from the power supple, offer great connectivity and other things.  This is IMHO old thinking that integrated are superior to avr's and times have changed.  Sure my integrated SS and tube amps sounded slightly different that the avr since they did not have all the DSP going.  I have been using both for going on seven years now and believe me, I've tried to pick which is better.  90% of my avr use is for strict 2 ch music.

 

This should apply to using this with Heritage, RP or Reference speakers.  The argument on certain spakers are more revealing compared to other is more related to the source and mastering of the music.  I have good and bad HD music file and also excellent mp3 as well as bad ones.  At our last GTG in Oct., the music was 50/50 between HD audio and mp 3's and nobody could reliably tell the difference.

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On 11/24/2015 at 2:44 PM, Colin said:

the bigger the better for speakers and horns.

After comparing every klipsch I have ever heard that statement is completely true, sometimes just different but usually bigger sounds better to me.

 

Cornwall or Heresy, it could be either for me, i have no problem with a sub, so for me it would depend more on how it would be used and the room.

I would say how they would match with modern electronics is not a problem at all, as long as it's decent equipment.  

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