What Exactly is Terrorism?

[Jeff Matthews]

 

Further to my point above, I am impressed at how they are able to respond so quickly. They are "Johnny on the Spot" in these types of situations. Just like they got the Boston Marathon bombers, etc. I don't think enough people realize just how heroic that is. Law enforcement has really become effective at responding. I wish we could do better at preventing.

And there's the rub. That discussion always goes downhill real fast.

 

 

Hmmm.  I didn't think showing gratitude for protecting our safety was controversial.

[Jeff Matthews]

 

I don't fault them one iota for gearing up like they do.  It certainly provides the impetus for critics when one of them goes rogue, but all in all, I don't even have the balls to be a cop.  It's a perilous job.  They should be well-armed and well-shielded.  I want law enforcement to prevail over serious criminals.

Yes of course. The problem though is getting in a mindset where they treat everyone like a serious criminal, as if every neighborhood is a war zone. We are seeing this more and more. No-knocks raids where kids are getting shot in the face within seconds of barging in, flash-bangs being thrown into cribs, etc. The more you gear them up as if they're playing Call of Duty, the more this kind of mess gets out of control.

 

 

Well, Travis, I see your point.  

 

Men and women are prone to error.  Maybe we should just arm them with batons.

[MercedesBerater]

I am not opposed to policeman and policewomen wearing gear to protect themselves. What I am opposed to is strapping up like Rambo. What ever happened to the taser? Taser instead of reaching for a gun... It seems it's shoot me dead is the only option... Every time??

Politicians say they pray about it. Well their god doesn't seem to be intervening.

Mass shootings, gun crime, and anything involving guns is attempted to be deflected by praying about it, instead of politicizing it.... Politicizing it will lead to policy. And gun policy is apparently a scary thing...

We've all said the same things, endlessly. We've asked, simply, plaintively, "Since what we're doing now doesn't work, why not try something else?" And, if you are capable of feeling shame about this, you cringe when you think about how other nations must look at the United States, an insanely-armed place that is tumbling into some mad mishmash of oligarchy and theocracy.

This country has allowed ludicrous and evil and demonstrably wrong people and ideas to be passed off as legitimate. We give people a forum to say unbelievable bullshit, like that expanded background checks will lead to tyranny and gun confiscation. At some point, we are allowed to assert that some things are not worthy of discussion and that some people and organizations deserve only contempt, derision, and isolation. We can turn people into pariahs. We are allowed to do that. The CNN anchor, reacting to the shooting a few days ago, kept saying, over and over, that it was sad and "ridiculous." She's right. Now, how about the next time some Republican politician talks about how we need to do more about the "mentally-ill" (which is something they won't do) and not limit gun purchases, she shuts them down and throws them off the show? What if she says that it's an unacceptable position to not do anything about guns?

We do not have to tolerate the intolerable. We have chosen to tolerate it. We have chosen to pretend as if the extremists who demand no regulation of guns have a valid point of view. We should be politicizing every shooting even more. We should be asking our politicians how they can dare not do something to help a nation afflicted with bullets.

If there will ever be a tipping point on guns, it will only happen when we say that disgusting acts are aided and abetted by disgusting people with disgusting beliefs. It will only happen when we treat the disgusting people with the disgust they deserve.

Edited December 3, 2015 by MercedesBerater

[Jim Naseum]

Technical shop talk is one thing, but it seems that most any spirited talk that is even remotely related to difference in conservative vs. progressive mindset, can be traced back to the mass media very easily.

 

BINGO! Now you see how Edward Bernays is one of the most influential men in the 20th century. Indeed, the background job of the commercial media institution is this: Keep the masses at war with themselves.  

[Paducah Home Theater]

Men and women are prone to error.

So a shrug of the shoulders and a "get over it" attitude is your response?

http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/no-knock-police-raid-ends-in-blazing-tragedy/

"last year more than 80,000 no-knock raids were conducted on American homes, Whitehead said. And 80 percent of SWAT raids are for mere warrant service."

Is this really necessary? LOTS of things go wrong during these raids. Why is this not just the norm, but getting more common?

Edited December 3, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Jim Naseum]

 

How about, "I hope your dad recovers fully. Let me know if I can help."

That would translate to "I hope these guys who got shot get better, oh wait, they're dead, um, I hope the families get over it soon enough". Yeah, "our thoughts and prayers" probably works better. Just not much else to say here.

 

 

No it wouldn't. My suggestion was germane to the situation and specific. Hence the word "dad." A comparable expression for a pol during a mass shooting might be: "My condolences to the families. We will try to help in any of the ways open to us."

 

Otherwise, I'd like to see a video of a politician on his knees praying. Yeah, right.  

[Jim Naseum]

BTW, I had no issue over cops "protecting themselves." I'm all for it. What I asked was why they wear desert camo. Quite a different question.

[Jeff Matthews]

I am not opposed to policeman and policewomen wearing gear to protect themselves. What I am opposed to is strapping up like Rambo. What ever happened to the taser? Taser instead of reaching for a gun... It seems it's shoot me dead is the only option... Every time??

Politicians say they pray about it. Well their god doesn't seem to be intervening.

Mass shootings, gun crime, and anything involving guns is attempted to be deflected by praying about it, instead of politicizing it.... Politicizing it will lead to policy. And gun policy is apparently a scary thing...

We've all said the same things, endlessly. We've asked, simply, plaintively, "Since what we're doing now doesn't work, why not try something else?" And, if you are capable of feeling shame about this, you cringe when you think about how other nations must look at the United States, an insanely-armed place that is tumbling into some mad mishmash of oligarchy and theocracy.

This country has allowed ludicrous and evil and demonstrably wrong people and ideas to be passed off as legitimate. We give people a forum to say unbelievable bullshit, like that expanded background checks will lead to tyranny and gun confiscation. At some point, we are allowed to assert that some things are not worthy of discussion and that some people and organizations deserve only contempt, derision, and isolation. We can turn people into pariahs. We are allowed to do that. The CNN anchor, reacting to the shooting a few days ago, kept saying, over and over, that it was sad and "ridiculous." She's right. Now, how about the next time some Republican politician talks about how we need to do more about the "mentally-ill" (which is something they won't do) and not limit gun purchases, she shuts them down and throws them off the show? What if she says that it's an unacceptable position to not do anything about guns?

We do not have to tolerate the intolerable. We have chosen to tolerate it. We have chosen to pretend as if the extremists who demand no regulation of guns have a valid point of view. We should be politicizing every shooting even more. We should be asking our politicians how they can dare not do something to help a nation afflicted with bullets.

If there will ever be a tipping point on guns, it will only happen when we say that disgusting acts are aided and abetted by disgusting people with disgusting beliefs. It will only happen when we treat the disgusting people with the disgust they deserve.

 

That was all completely rhetorical.  If it helps, "I'm mad, too, Eddie."  I can stangs all I can stangs, and I can't stangs no more.

[Jeff Matthews]

 

Men and women are prone to error.

So a shrug of the shoulders and a "get over it" attitude is your response?

http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/no-knock-police-raid-ends-in-blazing-tragedy/

"last year more than 80,000 no-knock raids were conducted on American homes, Whitehead said. And 80 percent of SWAT raids are for mere warrant service."

Is this really necessary? LOTS of things go wrong during these raids. Why is this not just the norm, but getting more common?

 

 

Why mix apples and oranges?  I said cops ought to be well-armed and well-shielded.  Does anybody think they should be less armed or less shielded?

[Jim Naseum]

 

The key words in "main stream media" are main stream. It represents the pulse of America. It's a mirror held up to our faces. If it wasn't, they would not be making huge profits.

That's why I watch it. It's my informal sociology study. It's placing my stethoscope on the heart. If I want real scholarly studies, I read books.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

 

A lot of people don't realize that even this forum is reflective of the pulse of America.  Just look at us. Bickering, incoherent, petty, word-parsing...  And we blame the media.  Go figure.

 

 

LOL

 

I meant something a little different though. I mean to say that THIS is the country we wanted to have and we made it so in our image of the ideal country. And, that includes 355 mass shootings this year. The mirror is simply confirming that. We have priorities. And at the very tippy top of the priority list is to be a massively armed nation. At the very lowest bottom is concern for anyone's health or welfare, especially children. Imagine having "active shooter drills" in all the schools. Or. teachers strapped to the gills to teach geography. 

 

No, you can't blame it on criminals. This guy in San Berdo was a completely "law abiding citizen" up to 10:00 am yesterday morning. He bought his guns legally. As is his unadulterated right. This is exactly what we want. What's the next step in our evolution? I think it will be "compounds." Just like in Mexico, people of means build "compounds" not houses. They have walls and fences and gates an security apparatus, and even guards if they are wealthy. Clearly, that will be the next step. It has to be. As gun sales are driven UPWARDS by events, the only response logical is to seek higher safety. I would suggest the next step might be 10M cops on every corner, but we don't have the public money for that. So, the next best alternative is "self protection."

[xxJPMxx]

Otherwise, I'd like to see a video of a politician on his knees praying.

 

Beware of lightning strikes!!

[Paducah Home Theater]

Why mix apples and oranges?  I said cops ought to be well-armed and well-shielded.  Does anybody think they should be less armed or less shielded?

My concern, which you seemed to disagree with, is that the more we outfit them with military grade and style of equipment, especially swat teams, the more aggressive they get, the more we see botched no-knock raids, the more they see themselves as a soldier in a war zone rather than a public servant that maintains the peace. I don't think this is a good thing. This has nothing to do with whether or not a patrol officer is wearing a kevlar vest under his uniform.

It does kind of concern me that patrol officers are riding around with rifles in their front seat though, sometimes full auto ones, especially considering a friend of mine was killed by one when it should have been a suicide prevention call. This is the kind of crap that scares me.

Edited December 3, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Bella]

"Our thoughts and prayers" is code for we don't need to change gun laws.

Interesting. And all this time when I said those words I thought I actually meant them, as I was thinking about them and praying for them. I must be completely stupid not to have been able to discern what my words actually meant.

And, are you advocating that a change to gun laws are necessary? What would you like to see changed?

Here's my thoughts: I'd like to see gun rights advocates treated in the same manner as any other right. I'd like to see the government adopt training programs similar to what the NRA provides. Perhaps we could have government subsidized training facilities in every major city, just like abortion clinics. Certainly this helps to being a 'well regulated militia.'

Why is my natural right constantly being demonized yet a right granted by government is funded, protected, promoted, and even prosthelytized?

Edited December 3, 2015 by Bella

[Jeff Matthews]

 

 

The key words in "main stream media" are main stream. It represents the pulse of America. It's a mirror held up to our faces. If it wasn't, they would not be making huge profits.

That's why I watch it. It's my informal sociology study. It's placing my stethoscope on the heart. If I want real scholarly studies, I read books.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

 

A lot of people don't realize that even this forum is reflective of the pulse of America.  Just look at us. Bickering, incoherent, petty, word-parsing...  And we blame the media.  Go figure.

 

 

LOL

 

I meant something a little different though. I mean to say that THIS is the country we wanted to have and we made it so in our image of the ideal country. And, that includes 355 mass shootings this year. The mirror is simply confirming that. We have priorities. And at the very tippy top of the priority list is to be a massively armed nation. At the very lowest bottom is concern for anyone's health or welfare, especially children. Imagine having "active shooter drills" in all the schools. Or. teachers strapped to the gills to teach geography. 

 

No, you can't blame it on criminals. This guy in San Berdo was a completely "law abiding citizen" up to 10:00 am yesterday morning. He bought his guns legally. As is his unadulterated right. This is exactly what we want. What's the next step in our evolution? I think it will be "compounds." Just like in Mexico, people of means build "compounds" not houses. They have walls and fences and gates an security apparatus, and even guards if they are wealthy. Clearly, that will be the next step. It has to be. As gun sales are driven UPWARDS by events, the only response logical is to seek higher safety. I would suggest the next step might be 10M cops on every corner, but we don't have the public money for that. So, the next best alternative is "self protection."

 

 

You are right in that we are getting the country we want.  On balance.

[Travis In Austin]

Men and women are prone to error.

So a shrug of the shoulders and a "get over it" attitude is your response?

http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/no-knock-police-raid-ends-in-blazing-tragedy/

"last year more than 80,000 no-knock raids were conducted on American homes, Whitehead said. And 80 percent of SWAT raids are for mere warrant service."

Is this really necessary? LOTS of things go wrong during these raids. Why is this not just the norm, but getting more common?

Why mix apples and oranges? I said cops ought to be well-armed and well-shielded. Does anybody think they should be less armed or less shielded?

Yes, a lot of people do, There is a new documentary going around the Country about the militarization of police. That documentary was spawned by a book written on subject, and a lot of problems in Utah was having with warrants.

[Jeff Matthews]

 

Why mix apples and oranges?  I said cops ought to be well-armed and well-shielded.  Does anybody think they should be less armed or less shielded?

My concern, which you seemed to disagree with, is that the more we outfit them with military grade and style of equipment, especially swat teams, the more aggressive they get, the more we see botched no-knock raids, the more they see themselves as a soldier in a war zone rather than a public servant that maintains the peace. I don't think this is a good thing. This has nothing to do with whether or not a patrol officer is wearing a kevlar vest under his uniform.

It does kind of concern me that patrol officers are riding around with rifles in their front seat though, especially considering a friend of mine was killed by one when it should have been a suicide prevention call. This is the kind of crap that scares me.

 

 

Exactly.  This has to do with personality and training.  Don't worry what they look like.  Don't worry about how well-armed they are.  Instead, worry about the mentality of the person and his or her propensities.

[xxJPMxx]

So this guy decides to snap at 10am one day and doesn't have any guns. BUT he does own a car, now he decides to drive his car through a Chuck E Cheese window killing 10 kids. Now we have to get rid of cars because they can kill people. My point is a recourceful crazy person can make a weapon or bomb from many things and hurt people with it.

[Jeff Matthews]

 

 

 

Men and women are prone to error.

So a shrug of the shoulders and a "get over it" attitude is your response?

http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/no-knock-police-raid-ends-in-blazing-tragedy/

"last year more than 80,000 no-knock raids were conducted on American homes, Whitehead said. And 80 percent of SWAT raids are for mere warrant service."

Is this really necessary? LOTS of things go wrong during these raids. Why is this not just the norm, but getting more common?

Why mix apples and oranges? I said cops ought to be well-armed and well-shielded. Does anybody think they should be less armed or less shielded?

Yes, a lot of people do, There is a new documentary going around the Country about the militarization of police. That documentary was spawned by a book written on subject, and a lot of problems in Utah was having with warrants.

 

 

As I stated above, this is a training/human issue.  I think carpenters are capable of using nail guns without too many bad incidents.  Clearly, something else besides dangerous guns is in play here.

[MercedesBerater]

Yes. Less armed. There's NO reason for cops to have anti land mine raid vehicles.

I would like a policeman to look like a policeman..

Badge, black or navy clothing, with a bulletproof vest, A taser, handcuffs, and a sidearm.

Not. Rolling up in a humvee, with an assault rifle and full riot gear for a traffic citation, or delivering a warrant.

And I would like stricter gun laws... Let's keep guns away from people with a violent history, and with mental illness. Some sensible laws may help avert some of these situations & reduce the fear the police have of the similarly strapped everyday civilian they are pulling over.

Being an officer is scary, no doubt.

I was pulled over recently for failing to signal a lane change. I pulled all the way over so I was off the roadway, and slightly leaning int the ditch, to give the officer safe distance from the roadway. I rolled my windows down. All of them. Removed my keys from the ignition and put them on the dash. I gripped my steering wheel at 11 & 1 so my hands are clearly visible.

When approached the officer asked for my license and registration. I requested permission to remove my wallet & then to open my glove box. After permission was granted I opened it with one hand and sat back and asked if he would like to check inside my glovebox first.

After the warning was given he asked why I was so cautious with him. I explained he has a scary job and doesn't know me & I don't know him. I don't want to be shot by him... Because I'm losing trust in cops for shooting first and asking questions later. And I want him to know he is safe around me --- even for a petty lane change warning.

Now imagine someone with a weapon and a cop comes up strapped for war & he's having a bad day-- and getting pulled over is the icing on the cake that day and he snaps. A readily available weapon allows him to act out of rage and kill.

If we had stricter gun laws he wouldn't have that option so EASILY available.. And the cops could use a taser or mace to subdue.

Instead it seems like we have rogue citizens who think this is the o.k. Corral and a small sect of officers that think the same.

The NRA and main stream media... More the Fox News type want us to think... You should be afraid! Go buy more guns and protect yourself.

More guns does not equal safety.. It equals more guns, more chances for a deadly weapon to be used.

[xxJPMxx]

and a lot of problems in Utah was having with warrants.

 

 

There is something wrong with that state. The law enforcement there is scary, they don't want anyone having any fun. I left Vegas headed for SLC on a vacation and had a run in with Johnny Law, they do what they want when they want regardless of your rights.