JohnA Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 "Crossover mod" Locked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Egos got in the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 John, I agree that if one looks at that thread on its face value, there is not much there that looks bad. I posted to it naively without realizing there was a hidden agenda, presumably by the original poster. The OP started that thread and now has a total of 2 posts. There were a couple of other threads regarding crossovers running at the same time in which posters became angry and made personal comments towards one another. After those other posts were locked, a first time poster made his very first post a thread featuring a picture of a high end crossover. A regular poster here recognized it immediately as a troll post and called it that. The moderators immediately (and correctly IMO) moved to stop the trolling before it even got started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 The OP probably left the forum after figuring out he was probably going to get ridiculed or flamed. This place is generally pretty hostile to anything that's out of the box. The "troll" I was referring to was the person not contributing anything of substance to the thread, but only present to harass and sabotage -- the same thing he was doing in the other crossover threads The network in question was a nice rebuild. The reason it was outside of the speaker is because inside of the cabinet is about the worse place there is for a network. I've had no less than three Klipsch engineers tell me this themselves. The only real unusual thing with the rebuild was replacing the internal speaker wire with magnet wire - the same wire that is used to wind inductors. Not really that uncommon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 inside of the cabinet is about the worse place there is for a network. I've had no less than three Klipsch engineers tell me this themselves.This peaked my curiosity, could you elaborate further Deang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 inside of the cabinet is about the worse place there is for a network. I've had no less than three Klipsch engineers tell me this themselves.This peaked my curiosity, could you elaborate further Deang. I would think it's a bad place due to vibrations and or magnetic fields but you asked the right person originally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Yeah I wondered about the vibrations, but there is nothing mechanical about crossovers that would be affected by vibrations is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Yeah I wondered about the vibrations, but there is nothing mechanical about crossovers that would be affected by vibrations is there? If there wasn't Deans hot glue bill would be cut drastically, LOL. I'll let him take it from here. The more I answer, the less everyone finds out that I actually know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 You seem to be doing fine, that makes sense now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 http://www.hificollective.co.uk/sites/default/files/claritycapmr_whitepaper.pdf The MR Series of capacitors are expensive, but so are the paper in oil capacitors that I use, which basically perform the same function (damping). The effect is quite noticeable. There are other reasons: roughly half of the PCBs I handle have some form of damage - usually a loose part or two. I have one right now that was sent to me with an inductor no longer connected. So, mechanical and acoustic vibration can, and usually does end up damaging something on the network. Wilson Audio and Sonus Faber competely pot their networks with epoxy. EV used to pot their networks with tar. Since my new autoformers and coils weigh so much, I've been encouraging customers to place the networks at the bottom of the loudspeaker (Cornwalls). This has the added benefit of getting them off of the side panel, which I know is vibrating like crazy. Ever notice how "audiophile" systems with a lot of attention to detail always seem to sound better than systems put together by people who don't believe in all of that "audiophile crap"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Ever notice how "audiophile" systems with a lot of attention to detail always seem to sound better than systems put together by people who don't believe in all of that "audiophile crap"? Data and graphs, please. If you can hear the difference, it must be measurable, or detected in extensive DBX testing. Then you don't know how to "hear". Proud papa syndrome. An budget AVR receiver is perfectly fine for high fidelity reproduction. Active crossovers and amps for every driver, measure, measure, measure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 There's also the auditory memory thing you have to fight. We supposedly can't "remember" what we heard 2 minutes ago. This one just kills me, because I can remember what my Magnepans sounded like and I haven't heard them in over 10 years. Same with my DQ-10s. I believe we get aural impressions, almost like a stamp - and it sticks with you. If I listen for an hour or so and then swap out networks, there's nothing hard about "remembering" the piano in Candle in the Wind, the bass lines in YYZ, or Justin Hayward's voice and 335. There are a multitude of subtle and not so subtle differences that are very easy to pick up on and "remember". I still think it's more like an imprint, and impression of sorts - and less about "remembering". I think Deneen was 100% spot on about DBT. I think the switching method obliterates the aural imprint - because all you get is this tiny piece of information, like a flashing thought that leaves you confused and disoriented - useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Ever notice how "audiophile" systems with a lot of attention to detail always seem to sound better than systems put together by people who don't believe in all of that "audiophile crap"? That's a rather broad statement, don't you think? I don't believe in much of that audiophile crap, and MY systems sound great....TO ME.....please don't even begin to think that you know what and how much, I hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Does this mean Al K is banned, here? LOL! Irascible, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 As to vibrations, they can subtly shift the plates in capacitors and perhaps the windings in inductors. That *might* modify the waveform passing through them, but I have doubts it would be audible. Vibrating loose a solder joint should be obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 He pretty much banned himself... Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I've been in a lot of rooms over the last 40 years with people who've loved the sound of their systems, so I've endured a lot of pain. I'm glad you like the sound of your system, but that doesn't mean everyone else will -- great systems generally receive universal praise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkytype Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 jimjimbo & mike stehr: Be careful, Deano might accuse you two of being trolls by asking the same questions I would have. I think we'd all like to know the Klipsch engineers, by name, who think the... "inside of the cabinet is about the worse place there is for a network." For theater or fixed commercial installations, locating a network outside the enclosure might be a necessity or convenience; but for home use, a bad idea. First, you've got the WAF. Second, you've got the WAF. Third, have you ever tried dusting a network board filled with odd shaped nooks and crannies created by the inductors, capacitors, autoformers, swamping resistors, etc.? You'd end up doing more damage than any purported "mechanical and acoustical vibration" could. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Ever notice how "audiophile" systems with a lot of attention to detail always seem to sound better than systems put together by people who don't believe in all of that "audiophile crap"? That's a rather broad statement, don't you think? I don't believe in much of that audiophile crap, and MY systems sound great....TO ME.....please don't even begin to think that you know what and how much, I hear. I think what Deang is talking about is getting that last 5% out of your system. Until you do it, you don't know what you are missing. This is where the laws of diminishing returns really kicks in and you have to decide if that tiny bit extra is work the time and investment. That doesn't mean the system won't sound good the way it is and be loved, it just means it could be a touch better. If it wasn't that way, we all wouldn't be reading the Klipsch Technical/Modifications thread!!! Some of this could also be perception, that's why snake oil is so prolific. If a system is gorgeous and meticulously put together, most would have the perception it will sound better, maybe even that 5% when it really doesn't. Arkytype, Unfortunately for my SO, my networks sit outside the box and laying all over the floor..... From a damage perspective, I guess the vacuum cleaner can do more than vibrations!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxima95 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I think we'd all like to know the Klipsch engineers, by name, who think the... "inside of the cabinet is about the worse place there is for a network." I am not interested in knowing the names of the Klipsch engineers. Via a search, there are threads and pages that address the pros and cons of this issue. First, you've got the WAF. Second, you've got the WAF. Third, have you ever tried dusting a network board filled with odd shaped nooks and crannies created by the inductors, capacitors, autoformers, swamping resistors, etc.? You'd end up doing more damage than any purported "mechanical and acoustical vibration" could. I have had to remove the dust from my LaScala crossovers. I used the brush attachment and a vacuum cleaner and have never had any difficulty or caused any damage. I have also removed the dust from my 2A3 mono amps the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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