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blabrie

Central Channel Setup

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Hello,

 

I'll invest in a new audio / home theater system. The Klipsch speakers are highly recommended to me.

 

First, the choice of speakers:

 

- For the floorstanding speakers, I selected: Premiere Reference RP-260F.

 

- For the surround speakers, I selected: R-14s or RS-400B. The surround is not a priority for me.

 

- For the central channel, I have a problem.

 

My TV (Samsung UN55J6300) is installed above a gas fireplace mantel. The TV is already at a higher than recommended. So I can not install a center channel speaker below the TV (this would drive up 7 to 8 inches above).

 

So I watch the show Klipsch Gallery G-28 LCRS speaker that I would install on top of the TV at a slight angle (I build a home support) towards the loveseat (same angle as the TV).

 

 

1. Is it a good idea to mix from Gallery Reference to Premiere Speakers?

 

2. Is my setup will give me an interesting audio experience?

 

3. If not, do you have any ideas. I had previously thought installing a sound bar as a central speaker, but it is not recommended on the forums and stores.... 

 

Thanks for your help ,

BLabrie

Edited by blabrie

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Welcome to the forum. 

 

In this instance, I think you'll need to post some pictures in order for us to really give you some good advice.  Generally, I would say that if the rest of your setup is the reference premiere line, you will very likely have issues with your center being overpowered if you go to a gallery line center.  But, if it's the only thing that you can work with...you may have little choice.  In your case, I would probably recommend that you go without a center for a while to see how that works for you.

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Thanks Kapsnb01,

 

I am a bit discouraged because I thought I had found a solution to my problem with the Gallery Line Product .
 
The center channel is probably one of the most important to listen to the TV. If I had the space, I would have preferred the RP-450C series. All voices pass through the center.
 
My Profil:
50-60% TV
20-25% Music (digital FLAC)
20-25% Film
 
I send you a picture of the space (I change the Accoustimas Bose system). At the left of the Fireplace, is the Receiver, Router, TV Receiver, etc. 
 
For the receiver, I am looking probably for the  Marantz SR5010,  Anthem MRX 510 or I don't know... I am still looking.
 
BLabrie

post-62076-0-38780000-1449975182_thumb.j

Edited by blabrie

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I don't think a gallery center channel could keep up with the rp-260fs

Edited by Mike M

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You could go to a hardware store like Lowes and buy a shelf and put the center above the TV and angle speaker downward a little like I did with my old center channel

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In your case, I would probably recommend that you go without a center for a while to see how that works for you.

 

I reluctantly agree.

 

I am a huge fan of getting the best center speaker you can because 90% of movies is dialog and 90% of the dialog comes from the center, which centers that dialog to the screen.

 

We have tried to work with others who have placed TV's above the fireplace without much success.  The fireplace is such an obstacle to overcome for all the reasons mentioned.

 

Some people do run a "phantom center" and like it.  To me it is the recommendation of last resort.

+++

 

Edit:  Mr. Labrie, I just saw Mike's recommendation just upstream ^^^.  That sounds like a pretty good option, certainly better than anything I could come up with.  I'm afraid if you put in a cheaper/smaller center that would not keep up with your mains you will be disappointed.

Edited by wvu80

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Hello wvu80,

I am really discouraged... I want to find an other solution.

The Gallery Line will not be powerful enough to follow the system ?

The RP-440C is the less high ... but the TV will be raised by 6.67 inches (5.67 inch + 1 inch spacing). Too high I think. 

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I feel your pain on not having a proper center.  We may have to be creative and there will be compromises, but it might work out, you may have to do some trial and error.

 

First of all I like the TV up a little high, my wife doesn't.  I liked my sound this way but my wife did not like the way it looked.  The top of the cabinet is 32" with a 47" TV.  The speakers are Fusion 10 Pures on stands, the center w/7" woofers is placed horizontally in the middle and a Klipsch 12" sub inside the cabinet.  My listening position as measure by Audyssey is about 13 feet.  This setup sounds pretty good.

 

post-58280-0-07420000-1449977952_thumb.j

 

Using different speakers now, here are the Klipsch CF-4's floor standing outside of the cabinet L/R.  The center speaker is now vertical in the cab, but OFFSET to the right, sub goes far left in a corner.  This looks strange but two things makes it work. 

 

The Onkyo AVR using Audyssey does a great job balancing all the speakers.  The other is my center listening position is NOT directly in front of the TV, I have two MLP which are offset left and right, you can walk between them with a couch on the R and a recliner on the L.  This setup also works really well, believe it or not because you don't really hear the speakers, you hear the entire front blended as a whole sound stage.

 

Note:  The center speaker is actually much deeper than it looks in the pic.  The high gloss piano black is reflecting the light colored wall through the back of the cab.

 

post-58280-0-34740000-1449978337_thumb.j

 

+++

 

IS IT POSSIBLE to find a center speaker you could place beside the TV on your mantle, OFFSET to the left?  Maybe a bookshelf speaker standing upright, or even laying on its side, tweeter towards the center.  Your AVR would have to handle the mixing.

Edited by wvu80
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Center channel is the most important speaker. That said, sometimes compromises need to be made. I think Mike & Dave are right about mounting above the TV. If you can't, then I think you should try the phantom center approach before going with the gallery center.

Dave is right, it's not the ideal solution but there's not a lot of other viable options given the space constraints.

I went a few years with my CF3s handling dialogue and while not ideal, they worked very well. It can work...

 

Edit:  Dave responded right before I submitted mine here and his suggestion to offset the center could also work out.  One other question:  You mentioned that you've chosen the speakers you listed, but did you actually purchase them yet, or just decided on them?  With how your front space appears, I'm wondering where you're planning to locate the towers, I'm guessing they will be fairly wide due to the shelving you have on the left side...? 

Edited by kapsnb01
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Hello.

 

THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR HELP. :)

 

After several investigations, it is almost impossible to set a speaker on the mantel (under the TV) because it measures 10in wide. The only Klipsch models that do well is the R-25 (7.25 "H x 18.75" W x 7.25 "D) and the RP-250C (6.81" x 18.5 "x 9.96"). Both cases go up the 8,25po TV and 7,81po respectively. It's a lot. (OPTION A)

 

On top of the TV, with a carrier or tablet, the speaker come out too much of the wall over the TV. The TV is 5 inches from the wall in its most distant part. (OPTION B).

 


The option that seems makes the most sense is that of WVU80. Place the center speaker in the video cabinet (left of the fireplace). The width is 18.75. So I could put RP-250C on a shelf. But I'm afraid that I always feel that the sound does not come from the TV itself, but next. I know the Odyssey (Marantz, Onkyo, Anthem) do good work. But I doubt. (OPTION C)

 

Another solution (Option D) would be to open the wall between the fireplace and the mantel and manufacture a embedded shelf. I could embed the RP-440C with a half inch of clearance around. The problem is the heat of the fireplace. Although the gas fireplace is a zero clearance for an item of the same depth as the fireplace (not a mantel that comes from the outside). I fear that the dry heat of the fireplace broke the speaker. And And I would not be more advanced.

 


Finally, the option of the phantom center channel (OPTION E). I don't like it... But I maybe don't have choice. 

 

Or, buy two systems (OPTION F). I buy a good soundbar for listening to TV and movies. And, then buy Stereo speakers for listening music with a hi-fi stereo amplifier (with DAC).


 

kapsnb01: Indeed, the towers will be located on each side of the fireplace. One where the Christmas tree and the other where the toys to cabinet. They will be equidistant from the TV (I have enough space on the side of the Christmas tree).

 

I keep looking.... Need help.

 

BLabrie

 

 

 

post-62076-0-95880000-1450024662_thumb.j

post-62076-0-04280000-1450024669_thumb.j

post-62076-0-14080000-1450024676_thumb.j

Edited by blabrie

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Really stupid question but what is right above the fireplace and how hot does it get?  There's a big empty panel that if it weren't for a heat generating source may be able to fit an in-wall.  I've seen some fireplaces that are more or less for looks, and I've seen some that would just about melt your TV in this situation.  

 

Me personally, I'd throw some THX ceiling speakers in there and call it good.  This setup will always be a compromise.  At least with those your LCR's will be identical.  Ceiling speakers will be better than a weird or nonexistent center with your mains nowhere near the height of the TV.  

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

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Thanks  MetropolisLakeOutfitters . I had never looked the in-wall speaker.

 

PRO-6504-L-THX (KL-6504-THX) In-Wall   - Is this a good option?  I would insert on top of the TV. Maybe I could make a wooden stand (to make a wall with 10' angle - like the TV)  to direct the sound down. Easy to make. 

 

OR Klipsch R-5502-W II 

 

I think that it's my best option. No ?

Edited by blabrie

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Does you gas fireplace have a vertical flue rising up above it or firing out the back?

 

I firing out the rear then mounting center speaker directly above the fireplace looks perfect.

 

Bill

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OK, still being creative here.  See if any of the ideas are interesting, we can delve into the details of sound quality and the ease and quality of the DIY build later.

 

OPTION G would go under the TV or mantle and take less than 6" of height, 8.25" deep.  I don't know if your mantle blocks heat, but if there is no heat directly above,  I wonder if this would UNDERHANG on that mantle?  Some of the smarter people here could help you design some kind of bracket.

 

q44.jpg

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-4.html

 

+++

 

OPTION H is a co-axial design so you have a larger woofer with the HF driver in the center of the woof so you immediately get a blended center.  There is a flat pack designed to mount downfiring.  This would mount above the TV.

 

volt_8_flat.jpg

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/coaxial-speaker-kits/volt-8.html

Edited by wvu80

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willland: They have no problem with the high temperature reached by the fireplace

 

I was more concerned with the room to mount in wall.

 

Bill

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willland: They have no problem with the high temperature reached by the fireplace

 

I had the concern with the temp.  See OPTION G.

 

You show in your diagram in Post #10 a possibility to underhang the right sized speaker.

+++

 

Here are some comments on the Fusion-4 Quad.

 

4373742.jpg

 

 

F4Q4x3c.jpg

 

F4Q4finish2.jpg

Edited by wvu80

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Hello.   THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR HELP.   After several investigations, it is almost impossible to set a speaker on the mantel (under the TV) because it measures 10in wide. The only Klipsch models that do well is the R-25 (7.25 "H x 18.75" W x 7.25 "D) and the RP-250C (6.81" x 18.5 "x 9.96"). Both cases go up the 8,25po TV and 7,81po respectively. It's a lot. (OPTION A)   On top of the TV, with a carrier or tablet, the speaker come out too much of the wall over the TV. The TV is 5 inches from the wall in its most distant part. (OPTION .   The option that seems makes the most sense is that of WVU80. Place the center speaker in the video cabinet (left of the fireplace). The width is 18.75. So I could put RP-250C on a shelf. But I'm afraid that I always feel that the sound does not come from the TV itself, but next. I know the Odyssey (Marantz, Onkyo, Anthem) do good work. But I doubt. (OPTION C)   Another solution (Option D) would be to open the wall between the fireplace and the mantel and manufacture a embedded shelf. I could embed the RP-440C with a half inch of clearance around. The problem is the heat of the fireplace. Although the gas fireplace is a zero clearance for an item of the same depth as the fireplace (not a mantel that comes from the outside). I fear that the dry heat of the fireplace broke the speaker. And And I would not be more advanced.   Finally, the option of the phantom center channel (OPTION E). I don't like it... But I maybe don't have choice. 
seems like a very difficult situation. 

 

Or, buy two systems (OPTION F). I buy a good soundbar for listening to TV and movies. And, then buy Stereo speakers for listening music with a hi-fi stereo amplifier (with DAC).
not gonna lie. since you mostly watch tv a good quality soundbar with small wireless sub can make it very easy to hear dialogue. and having separate gear for 2 channel will give you the most for your musical experience. seems like you care since you listen to flac. a very nice dac and integrated hooked to two towers will be outstanding. soundbar for tv and you could still watch movies with 2 channel stuff on if you wanted a little more volume. i vote for this option. is exactly what i would do. to me if you can make a proper matching center work then there is no point in trying to compromise so much.  

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