A K-402-Based Full-Range Multiple-Entry Horn

[Chris A]

6 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

This makes me wonder what would happen if ChrisA didn't use an enclosure around the MEH, and used it about 1 Meter out off both walls?

I used the prototype without a box, but the effect wasn't very pleasing, in my experience.  Bass response actually got more spotty (polars got ugly) and generally weaker. 

 

The K-402-MEH really depends on at least half space loading (i.e., the back of the unit is touching a wall), so I wouldn't want to give away the bass extension to space it away from its backstop wall.

 

Chris

[ClaudeJ1]

2 hours ago, Chris A said:

I used the prototype without a box, but the effect wasn't very pleasing, in my experience.  Bass response actually got more spotty (polars got ugly) and generally weaker. 

 

The K-402-MEH really depends on at least half space loading (i.e., the back of the unit is touching a wall), so I wouldn't want to give away the bass extension to space it away from its backstop wall.

 

Chris

Understood. I belong to that same camp, so to speak. There are many people who read Stereophile magazine and believe that speakers belong about 1/4 of the way into the room and away from all walls. Probably more of them the us guys who like corners. Just sayin'. But I agree with you on this.

[VDS]

Glad to hear box volume isn’t a real issue. I’m thinking of reorienting my 402’s from vertical to horizontal. I feel as I move around the room the coverage is not consistent.  I feel switching to 90degrees horizontal will improve coverage, and allow them to sit deeper in the corners. 

[parlophone1]

On 7/22/2021 at 4:32 AM, Dave A said:

Where are you that getting K-402 sets are a problem? My understanding is Klipsch will sell you sets all day long. Replacement parts are an issue though if you are not an owner with serial numbers.

 

OK S-MWM #2 go for it! Mine has the 402 + 1132 driver and when you get done I can send you the Xilica file I use for mine.

 

Europe.

I am in contact with Klipsch pro poeple and still waiting from them when a pair would be available.

 

K402s should come with the same driver as you got.

[VDS]

Question about active crossovers. The more understand about frequency related to music, I am wondering how crossover points  between compression drivers and paper cone woofers are determined. It seemed the determining factor was the limitation of the drivers. With a compression driver that can go to 300hz and woofers good to 1000hz+, would it be beneficial run the CD down to 300hz ?  
I will experiment, just wondering if anybody has ideas on the subject?

Ted

[NBPK402]

Glad to hear box volume isn’t a real issue. I’m thinking of reorienting my 402’s from vertical to horizontal. I feel as I move around the room the coverage is not consistent.  I feel switching to 90degrees horizontal will improve coverage, and allow them to sit deeper in the corners. 

I am able to get mine a few inches from my corner bass traps by running mine on their sides.

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[VDS]

1 hour ago, NBPK402 said:

I am able to get mine a few inches from my corner bass traps by running mine on their sides.

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So you turned yours horizontal?  Did you get better soundstage? Or just more cohesive sound?

[NBPK402]

Can't say as I built my MEHs to be that way to fit in the corners and be floorstanding (I wish I wolud have made them taller so the horn throat would be lined up with my ears though). My Center is the normal way, but it is mounted on a short stand that angles it upward to the mlp. Here is a pic of one next to my acoustic panel.

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[Marvel]

Those came out really nice. How is the horizontal coverage with them rotated like that?

[NBPK402]

Those came out really nice. How is the horizontal coverage with them rotated like that?

My room is 19' wide and with them angled in to where they are aimed right at my ears...center image is right on the money and the sound stage extends to the sides of the MLP. So I have about a 180 degree soundstage... I like it because you are emmerced into the music.

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[OO1]

3 hours ago, NBPK402 said:

 (I wish I wolud have made them taller so the horn throat would be lined up with my ears though).

you can always add a riser or base of some sort or to angle the speaker , it cant but help to improve the sound or not to scratch the cabinet ,  the riser does not even need to be  a bolt on

[NBPK402]

you can always add a riser or base of some sort or to angle the speaker , it cant but help to improve the sound or not to scratch the cabinet ,  the riser does not even need to be  a bolt on

I have thought about that, as I could then put my compression driver amp below the speakers too.

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[OO1]

18 minutes ago, NBPK402 said:

 I could then put my compression driver amp below the speakers too.
 

great idea ,  when we used to do  permanent  or temporary  installs of Altec  VOTT , and JBL  pro units , we used to have the amps  and gear hooked  up straight into the platform of the speakers  for ease of servicing -

 

Today , they call it an Active Speaker 

[NBPK402]

I decided to change the way my speakers were wired to the amp. I did this because my Icepower 125asx2BTL amps are spec'd for 4 ohms, and my Emminence Kappa 15c woofers are 4 ohm woofers. The way they were wired I believed was starving them of bass power due to them being seen as a 8ohm load. The way I now have them wired from the Xilica is with a XLR splitter going to each amp and the amp output goes to the individual woofer.

I ran REW for the first time from the MLP and noticed a huge peak around 100hz, and Chris said lower the gain by 8db.. I did and it sounded much better, so I ran my right channel with the mic 1 meter from the horn mouth Using my 6" deep acoustic panels (filled with 4" of Roxul r60) to form a box (somewhat, as I ran short on panels) around the mic. The previous measurement was done with a single layer of Roxul r60 (raw), with one standing upright on each side of the horn (in the gap between the horn and cabinet), one on the floor, and 1 behind the mic stand I made.

I ran REW and compared it to the old REW, and saw some interesting things. Even after the 8db gain reduction...we still have a big peak. Now what I also find interesting is at 22hz where the measurement stopped...look how much more bass I have compared to the original REW run! If I was to put the gain back to where it was previously and get rid of the peak around 100hz... I would have superb bass down to 20hz!

Next question is why do I have a null now around 650hz? Is it the mic? Is it the thicker acoustic panels?
 
If I was to reduce the bump...how would I do it so I only got the selected area that is boosted, and would it affect the phase growth?

As everyone knows I have loved these MEHs that Chris has shared to everyone, and now after seeing it is possible to get close to 20HZ without even having a sub. I am VERY HIGHLY recommending everyone to give these a shot, as you WILL NOT be disappointed!

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Edited October 28, 2021 by NBPK402
corrected to 650hz

[CECAA850]

550 hz.  Possibly floor bounce cancelation? 

[NBPK402]

35 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

550 hz.  Possibly floor bounce cancelation? 

I was wrong...it is 650hz. the prior tune had 2" of Roxul on the floor in the same position and now we have a 6" panel with 4" of the same Roxul in the same spot. Do you think doubling the Roxul, could do that?

[CECAA850]

2 hours ago, NBPK402 said:

I was wrong...it is 650hz. the prior tune had 2" of Roxul on the floor in the same position and now we have a 6" panel with 4" of the same Roxul in the same spot. Do you think doubling the Roxul, could do that?

Ill defer to @Chris A

[NBPK402]

Thanks, I think I will run REW one more time, and then send it to Chris, and see if he has a solution.

[CECAA850]

1 hour ago, NBPK402 said:

Thanks, I think I will run REW one more time, and then send it to Chris, and see if he has a solution.

He da man

[Supersteff]

Hi

 

I was wondering what you refer to in regard to wiring between your two woofers and the Icepower 125asx2BTL?

 

 

On 10/27/2021 at 7:24 PM, NBPK402 said:

The way they were wired I believed was starving them of bass power due to them being seen as a 8ohm load.

So I take it, that you had your two woofers wired in series and then driven BTL.

 

I don´t know how well you are into your Icepower-amp, so excuse me if i tell you something you already know. I have attached the manual for the Icepower 125asx2.

 

On page 9 there are some Power Specifications, but it doesn´t seem to indicate, that there should be much difference in output-power whether driven with two channels SE and 4 ohm or one channel BTL and 8 ohm!?

 

An other thing that I noticed when studying the manual is, that there is a pin on the signal connector from the DSP-board to the ICEPOWER-board that says "BTL Sync". Page 6. When it is activated it synchronizes the switching-frequencies of the two amp-channels. Page 12. I don´t know how much DIY your amps are, but maybe that is an issue when driven in BTL without synchronization? On my MiniDSP plateamps, the software/dsp-board takes care of that.

 

 

(I own six of the MiniDSP PWR-ICE-125 plate-amps, and have studied the the manual for the Icepower  125asx2, to figure out how I can substitute the Icepower with a small class A amp. There is a manual for the Icepower 125asx2 on the MiniDSP homepage.)

 

Steffen

 

ICEpower125ASX2_Datasheet_1_9 (3).pdf