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you were all right about the Tads and the 402!


juniper

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Just want to thank so many of you, for the info you have provided on Jubilees and clones . I would name names, but I would be afraid I would leave someone out. YOU ALL KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!! I finally hooked up the Tad 4002's to the 402's. This is sonic BLISS, so smooth, open, airy, clear, detailed, and a lot more information being presented. I could go on and on. For my tastes, this is the best system I have heard.

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To me the Tad's were a easily better than original drivers, even my old ears easily heard a big difference. I only had a problem with the price, definitely not the sound.

 

Glad you like them, it's not hard to do.

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It's not necessarily that anything is wrong with the K69.  It's that the TAD is a better driver and sounds cleaner.  I don't know the actual retail prices...but from what I've read, you are comparing a $100/$200 K69 driver to a $1,000/$1,500 TAD.

 

When you do a side by side with them (speaking for myself), there was an easily discernible clarity improvement with the TAD.

 

Clarity to the point that I honestly feel that if you put a blind fold on me and did the side by side, I could select the TAD most (if not every) time. 

 

You've read people say that making a certain change "lifted a veil" from the sound?

 

It was when I heard them side by side that I finally felt I understood what they meant by that comment.  It exactly described my experience.

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What was wrong with the k69 OP?

Schu, nothing wrong with the k69 it sounds very good, its just that the Tads are more refined. The K69 in my small space is a little more forward needing more eq. I could live with either one. The Tads are definitely smoother and give you more of that holographic effect. I like the K69 also, and for the price is insanely good on the k402. I think the p audio drivers new were 300 a pair, the Tads msrp were 6000 a pair.               

     JWC will try to get pics up today!

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There was a guy on Ebay selling them in the $1200/pr. range.  He had 24 pair.  I wouldn't call that expensive for TAD 4002s.  They are over $3K a pair now if you can find them.  He may still be selling them.  Haven't looked in a while.

If you look on completed listings on ebay or look up true heart sound, they should have a bunch left. They will even try to match a pair for you. they were great to work with. One of the originals they sent had a cracked fram, and they sent me another one, no questions asked.

Edited by juniper
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K69 and the TAD with the BE diaphragm.  You can see the honeycomb cover for the diaphragm.  If you don't have that, as best I know, you have a replacement that might not be made of BE.

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Edited by Coytee
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The only issue with the K-69-A or the P.Audio BM-D750 driver is that it rings above 12 kHz...like a bell.  A lot of people are fairly insensitive to that sound, so they don't realize that some of that added "crispness" on the high end is actually HF ringing.  I've got REW impulse response plots showing this clearly.

 

If you pair the K-69-As on a K-402 or a K-510 with Beyma CP25s, crossing the K-69-As using higher order filters just below 10 kHz, time aligning them and EQing them properly, you have a really good clean sound available that makes the differences with the TADs much lessened.  However, you will still have a bit of a vertical separation of drivers issue that makes your time alignment a little sensitive to whether you're sitting or standing--if your listening position is fairly close to the loudspeakers.

 

Chris

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The only issue with the K-69-A or the P.Audio BM-D750 driver is that it rings above 12 kHz...like a bell. A lot of people are fairly insensitive to that sound, so they don't realize that some of that added "crispness" on the high end is actually HF ringing. I've got REW impulse response plots showing this clearly.
Is the ringing induced by the amount of EQ required to run the 402 as a 2-way, or is the ringing present in its native response?

 

Just curious.

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The ringing is there at small and large signals--EQ has nothing to do with the 14 kHz ringing.  It's there all the time if driven in that pass band.

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It's not necessarily that anything is wrong with the K69.  It's that the TAD is a better driver and sounds cleaner.  I don't know the actual retail prices...but from what I've read, you are comparing a $100/$200 K69 driver to a $1,000/$1,500 TAD.

 

When you do a side by side with them (speaking for myself), there was an easily discernible clarity improvement with the TAD.

 

Clarity to the point that I honestly feel that if you put a blind fold on me and did the side by side, I could select the TAD most (if not every) time. 

 

You've read people say that making a certain change "lifted a veil" from the sound?

 

It was when I heard them side by side that I finally felt I understood what they meant by that comment.  It exactly described my experience.

Is it possible that you are hearing the difference in diaphragm materials?

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There was a guy on Ebay selling them in the $1200/pr. range.  He had 24 pair.  I wouldn't call that expensive for TAD 4002s.  They are over $3K a pair now if you can find them.  He may still be selling them.  Haven't looked in a while.

If you look on completed listings on ebay or look up true heart sound, they should have a bunch left. They will even try to match a pair for you. they were great to work with. One of the originals they sent had a cracked fram, and they sent me another one, no questions asked.

 

Pat,

 

In the Bahamas until Mid March, but would like to hear your System when I get back....... Will you be settled by then?

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"Dennis, is the ringing still there on the PAudio BMD-750 II model?"

 

Yes, it's a mechanical break-up mode.

 

You can stick a bit of foam tape (on the side away from the phase plug)  at the apex of the dome, JBL does this on many models (aluminum on the 2445).

 

D16R2445-Front.jpg

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