Powered subwoofer for Heritage series

[we_doyle]

This would be for a Klipschorn, but it might also be for a LaScala, a Belle, or a Heresy.  I am wondering what might happen if I used a 15 inch powered subwoofer in a Klipschorn.  The way this might happen would be to put the woofer itself in the Klipschorn (it would be one that needed a new woofer anyway) and run the woofer leads on the Klipschorn crossover to the subwoofer amp.  This would mean that the subwoofer amp would need to have speaker level inputs as well as line level inputs.  You should be able to take the leads from the crossover and split the pair into two pairs for each speaker input in the subwoofer amp, putting a mono signal to each channel in the subwoofer amp.  If successful, you might strengthen and extend that bottom end.  Ideally, you might take a Klipschorn all the way down to 20 hz.

 

Having said all that, it appears that a Klipschorn crossover sends signals below 400 hz to the woofer.  A powered sub would likely cut off at 100 hz or 150 hz, leaving a gap for signals under 400 hz and over that cutoff frequency.  We don't want that.  So, would it be possible to bypass that control on the subwoofer amp so that none of the signal was cutoff?  Then, (theoretically) the Klipschorn crossover would send everything under 400 hz to the subwoofer amp and in turn that would be passed on to the subwoofer's woofer, now the woofer inside the Klipschorn.  If would be easy enough to mount the subwoofer amp somewhere around back of the Klipschorn so it looks good.  Although all frequencies could then go through, the Klipschorn crossover would not let high frequencies ever reach the subwoofer amp.

 

Before you make the "drawing a mustache and/or glasses on the Mona Lisa" comment, note that I did NOT say I was going to do this.   I said I was wondering about it.  I do realize that if this were done, it would have to be done two times for two speakers.  Also, the cost might be ridiculous.  However, I would like to stay focused on the "what if" and not go to the "why would you?".

 

So, is it possible (and reasonably easy) to bypass the control on a powered subwoofer amp that sets the cutoff frequency, such that all frequencies received go to the amp and to the woofer?  If some models could allow this, which ones are they?  What other technical issues or challenges or tasks might arise and how would they be dealt with?

 

FYI, I have a very old Klipschorn cabinet in very good shape and I am going to restore the guts and use it as a center channel, flanked by a pair of LaScala's.  I would run a mono signal to the Klipschorn and a stereo signal to the LaScala's, using separate amps.  Once I get the Klipschorn up and running, the rest is relatively easy.  I don't mind having to use multiple amps.

 

So, let the conversation begin.

 

 

 

 

[twk123]

I think by the time you get the woofer in and reverse engineer everything it is going to be more trouble than its worth and the cabinet tuning isnt going to be low enough to really get the most from the subwoofer. From what you are saying I do have something that you will find interesting. It is a highly regarded DIY horn loaded subwoofer that uses a 15'' woofer and would be a much more worthwhile project. The sub is called the Cinema F-20 and has been built by a few members here.

 

Here is a good thread on a build.

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/134131-cinema-f-20-build-thread/

 

I would PM CECAA850

 

he knows quite a bit on how to build these and can give great advice.

 

 

If i was in your situation, I would run the Cinema F-20 between the 2 LaScalas  as they do need some low end reinforcement then restore the single Klipshorn and use it as a mono speaker in a different room. Is this going to be for music only or a Home Theater system?

[mustang guy]

This would be for a Klipschorn, but it might also be for a LaScala, a Belle, or a Heresy.  I am wondering what might happen if I used a 15 inch powered subwoofer in a Klipschorn.  The way this might happen would be to put the woofer itself in the Klipschorn (it would be one that needed a new woofer anyway) and run the woofer leads on the Klipschorn crossover to the subwoofer amp.  This would mean that the subwoofer amp would need to have speaker level inputs as well as line level inputs.  You should be able to take the leads from the crossover and split the pair into two pairs for each speaker input in the subwoofer amp, putting a mono signal to each channel in the subwoofer amp.  If successful, you might strengthen and extend that bottom end.  Ideally, you might take a Klipschorn all the way down to 20 hz.

 

Having said all that, it appears that a Klipschorn crossover sends signals below 400 hz to the woofer.  A powered sub would likely cut off at 100 hz or 150 hz, leaving a gap for signals under 400 hz and over that cutoff frequency.  We don't want that.  So, would it be possible to bypass that control on the subwoofer amp so that none of the signal was cutoff?  Then, (theoretically) the Klipschorn crossover would send everything under 400 hz to the subwoofer amp and in turn that would be passed on to the subwoofer's woofer, now the woofer inside the Klipschorn.  If would be easy enough to mount the subwoofer amp somewhere around back of the Klipschorn so it looks good.  Although all frequencies could then go through, the Klipschorn crossover would not let high frequencies ever reach the subwoofer amp.

 

Before you make the "drawing a mustache and/or glasses on the Mona Lisa" comment, note that I did NOT say I was going to do this.   I said I was wondering about it.  I do realize that if this were done, it would have to be done two times for two speakers.  Also, the cost might be ridiculous.  However, I would like to stay focused on the "what if" and not go to the "why would you?".

 

So, is it possible (and reasonably easy) to bypass the control on a powered subwoofer amp that sets the cutoff frequency, such that all frequencies received go to the amp and to the woofer?  If some models could allow this, which ones are they?  What other technical issues or challenges or tasks might arise and how would they be dealt with?

 

FYI, I have a very old Klipschorn cabinet in very good shape and I am going to restore the guts and use it as a center channel, flanked by a pair of LaScala's.  I would run a mono signal to the Klipschorn and a stereo signal to the LaScala's, using separate amps.  Once I get the Klipschorn up and running, the rest is relatively easy.  I don't mind having to use multiple amps.

 

So, let the conversation begin.

 

A subwoofer and a woofer aren't the same thing. Even though The K-33 is cut off at 400Hz in a khorn, it is capable of higher frequency than that, and actually performs higher because of the slope. If you want a sub, buy a sub or build one like twk mentioned. 

 

If I had a single KHorn and a pair of LS's, I would sell the Khorn and buy a 3rd LS. That is a personal thought. I think it would be bulky with a false corner, plus you would not get the same room gain in the center.

 

You might find out what your Khorn cab is worth in the shape it is in now. I bet you could buy a pair of Lascalas for what it's worth...

[we_doyle]

Everybody has some good comments.  I actually have three LaScala's for my home theater (right, left, and center channels).  I could have lived without the Klipschorn just fine, but got a nice deal on the empty cabinet.  I want to somehow use it.  The money I could get selling it does not matter to me.

 

It might be better to use it in another room as a center channel carrying a mono signal for a stereo system that is strictly for music listening.  I have such a room now, with all tube equipment.  But it is a little cramped.

 

This is probably a case of status or ego.  There is just something about a Klipschorn, even if you have LaScala's.  I could get another single one down the road.  I would need to put them in another room to have the corners available.

 

I will check out that link.  Since I have subwoofers in my system, it sounds like adding a powered sub into the Klipschorn would be more trouble than it is worth.

[mustang guy]

In that case, check out all the cool vintage Fisher tube mono equipment. Like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/the-fisher-receiver-90-R-/231646995033?hash=item35ef3ca259:g:dv0AAOSw9N1Vxm-N plus this http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Fisher-80-series-80-AZ-Power-Amplifier-For-parts-or-repair-/191795792380?hash=item2ca7eb89fc:g:cdwAAOSw5dNWpnY-. I am not recomending you buy the units I am linking to. I am only pointing out that a pre-pro mono setup like this is excellent and made for ONE efficient speaker. Stick the Khorn in a corner with a setup like this and don't look back. PWK would indeed be proud.

[Quiet_Hollow]

This is probably a case of status or ego. There is just something about a Klipschorn, even if you have LaScala's.

Very likely, because once you have a capable horn subwoofer to complement the La Scala, then the tuning and form factor of the K-Horn bottom cabinet become comparatively less advantageous.

 

OTOH - Very few large format speakers can couple to the corner of a room as well as, or better than the K-Horn.

 

In fact, I believe a horn subwoofer with 20-150 Hz capability with similar packaging would prove highly desirable.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Quiet_Hollow

[JJkizak]

There just isn't enough room in the K-horn for that 21 inch or longer  sub woofer. My 12" has two cones connected together with approximately 18" x 4" diameter metal tube. The K-horn cannot pass anything much below 30 HZ anyway because of the physical internal dimensions of the K-horn itself. My RSW 12 goes down to 19 HZ with brute force technology. (1500 watts)

JJK