oldtimer Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 You are wherever your mind is creating. Where is that somewhere when you are on LSD or DMT? It is obviously not the same somewhere as the normal awake state, or dream state. You can't have any choice of place, other than what mind creates at the moment. Therefore we used to be the center of the solar system and the sun revolved around us. But now somehow we are not. Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 One can dream and imagine, but that dream is not reality. A person cannot create from dreams, excepting that a person may take the ideas dreams create and actualize them through physical actions. If you say different ... you're dreaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 You are wherever your mind is creating. Where is that somewhere when you are on LSD or DMT? It is obviously not the same somewhere as the normal awake state, or dream state. You can't have any choice of place, other than what mind creates at the moment. Therefore we used to be the center of the solar system and the sun revolved around us. But now somehow we are not. Amazing. The mind keep growing in ideas of higher complexity and abstraction. One mind infects the next, until a whole new belief exists within the minds. But it's only passed on formally. A new born, left in the wild, with no formal education, will not imagine the earth going around the sun. How could they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 This idea that we are objects operating in an existing universe, is of course crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 But now somehow we are not. Amazing. Oddly, you are dead on. This thread has become almost pure anthropic cosmological theory in direction and the earth ceased to be the center of the universe the moment we decided it was not. Read Barrow and Tipler. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 But now somehow we are not. Amazing. Oddly, you are dead on. This thread has become almost pure anthropic cosmological theory in direction and the earth ceased to be the center of the universe the moment we decided it was not. Read Barrow and Tipler. Dave Thanks for the backhanded compliment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 This idea that we are objects operating in an existing universe, is of course crazy. Crazy is as crazy thinks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 This thread has become almost pure anthropic cosmological theory Except for those who don't believe there is a reality independent of the mind. Well, that's at least me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Assume we are in a 3d (why only 3?) holographic projection. Does the projection not exist? So who is really crazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Except for those who don't believe there is a reality independent of the mind. Well, that's at least me. Not sure you understand it. Main point of the final is that there is NO reality independent of the mind. Goes back to Descartes, "cogito ergo mundus talis est." Barrow and Tipler: "Observers are necessary to bring the Universe into being." Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 OK so other universes within the multi-verse really don't exist? Simply because they do not have observers to validate them? C'mon man. Why bother with a multi-verse in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Except for those who don't believe there is a reality independent of the mind. Well, that's at least me. Not sure you understand it. Main point of the final is that there is NO reality independent of the mind. Goes back to Descartes, "cogito ergo mundus talis est." Barrow and Tipler: "Observers are necessary to bring the Universe into being." Dave Berkeley again? See post number 18. I looked at the blogs on your website. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Goes back to Descartes, "cogito ergo mundus talis est." I think, therefore I am, not therefore there is a universe which would not be there without my witty observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Cogito ergo sum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Years ago I attended a lecture by Dr. Leon Lederman (Nobel prize for quarks, etc.) at IIT. A fellow in the audience asked whether reality is only God's computer simulation. Dr. Leon replied, "Is there a theology department in this institute? You should ask the question there." As for this general discussion ruminating on a suspicion that there is no objective reality: You're 100% coconuts to doubt it. WMcD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) Cogito ergo sum. Good catch. My bad. Reading glasses now on. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF03177507 Still my basic question seems to have weight. Edited February 6, 2016 by oldtimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 The senses deceive from time to time, and it is prudent never to trust wholly those who have deceived us even once.Rene Descartes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 It is not enough to have a good mind; the main thing is to use it well.Rene Descartes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 One cannot conceive anything so strange and so implausible that it has not already been said by one philosopher or another. Rene Descartes Now show me where he ever said cogito ergo mundus talis est. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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