Jump to content

First DSD Audio Files


Wolfbane

Recommended Posts

Put enough time in on my DSD Capable DAC since its arrival and finally had some time to download and listen to music in DSD audio format and I have to say I'm pretty impressed so far.  :emotion-29:  :emotion-29:  :emotion-29:

 

Some of these files are massive which at this point seems to be the only down side. They're are also rather expensive to purchase but I've just been downloading free sample files so far.  :)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

DSD hugh, I don't know much about it other than its a new higher def streaming that is better than mp3.

 

How big are the files of a typical song?    In Megabytes if you would.

 

Ugh I see crooked Sony is behind the technology. 

Edited by BobK
Link to comment
Share on other sites

DSD hugh, I don't know much about it other than its a new higher def streaming that is better than mp3.

 

How big are the files of a typical song?    In Megabytes if you would.

 

Ugh I see crooked Sony is behind the technology. 

 

Files are really large. For example: Smoke Gets in Your Eyes in 24-bit 352.8kHz format is 685MB when unzipped.

 
  •  
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow that is big.  So these are not only for streaming?  You can put them on your hard drive like MP3s?

 

I would think that is about as good as anyone would need.    I have a hard time telling a 320mp3 vs the CD.

 

Think of these files as SACD files on your hard drive. The difference is you use a DAC in place of a SACD Olayer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DSD hugh, I don't know much about it other than its a new higher def streaming that is better than mp3.

 

How big are the files of a typical song?    In Megabytes if you would.

 

Ugh I see crooked Sony is behind the technology. 

 

The DSD format/recordings have been around for more than a decade... the only relatively new thing about it is you can now download recordings online in the high-res format.  Sony and Phillips actually created the technology.

 

Here's a pretty good article on the subject... http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-abcs-of-dsd-downloads/

Edited by GPBusa
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

24-bit 352.8kHz format is 685MB when unzipped

 

Problem with that.  DSD is 1-bit with a 2.8224 MHz sampling rate.  Above is PCM, not DSD.

 

Dave

 

Dave is DSD better than PCM,  I am not sure which is better

 

DSD - 1-bit with a 2822.4 KHz sampling rate. (I converted Mhz to Khz so we are looking at same units)

PCM - 24-bit with a 352.8 Khz sampling rate.

 

1 bit but has almost 10x the sampling rate vs high bit (24) with lower sampling rate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24-bit 352.8kHz format is 685MB when unzipped

 

Problem with that.  DSD is 1-bit with a 2.8224 MHz sampling rate.  Above is PCM, not DSD.

 

Dave

Dave is DSD better than PCM,  I am not sure which is better

 

DSD - 1-bit with a 2822.4 KHz sampling rate. (I converted Mhz to Khz so we are looking at same units)

PCM - 24-bit with a 352.8 Khz sampling rate.

 

1 bit but has almost 10x the sampling rate vs high bit (24) with lower sampling rate.

There is no real consensus to what is better. What listeners should be concerned about:

1. Was my music originally recorded in DSD?

2. What master or final version of my music do I like best?

DSD is an excellent format, but do not use it as qualifier for good sound, i.e. all recordings on Vinyl sound the best?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could be wrong, but doesn't all DSD have to be converted to PCM or PWM for playback? I haven't seen any direct digital amplifiers that can accept a DSD signal directly and keep everything in the DSD digital domain until final analog output. The DAC is converting the DSD to PCM and then to analog, yes?

 

J River Media Center supports DSD file playback, but it's still converted to PCM. My main music source is now a laptop. I use HDMI out to HDMI in on a NAD C390DD which is a direct digital amplifier (so is NAD M2, but no HDMI).

 

IMO the main advantage of DSD is for archiving since 1 bit divides evenly into any whole (sample rate) number. Also, as technology progresses, and higher sample rates are achievable DSD allows upsampling to the higher sample rate without any interpolation (source of errors).

 

Do we need higher res files? In the digital recording editing and mastering process where various DSP might be applied, yes. You can easily see the difference in distortion of the waveform in the digital editor, DAW or mastering software. At that level it is audible. By the time it gets down sampled to CD quality (or worse yet, some MP3 or Apple version) for the consumer I doubt anyone can hear the difference. Any bets?  :rolleyes:

 

In the end it's the recording engineer that's king. If it's not done right in the first place..................................

Edited by artto
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could be wrong, but doesn't all DSD have to be converted to PCM or PWM for playback? I haven't seen any direct digital amplifiers that can accept a DSD signal directly and keep everything in the DSD digital domain until final analog output. The DAC is converting the DSD to PCM and then to analog, yes?

J River Media Center supports DSD file playback, but it's still converted to PCM. My main music source is now a laptop. I use HDMI out to HDMI in on a NAD C390DD which is a direct digital amplifier (so is NAD M2, but no HDMI).

IMO the main advantage of DSD is for archiving since 1 bit divides evenly into any whole (sample rate) number. Also, as technology progresses, and higher sample rates are achievable DSD allows upsampling to the higher sample rate without any interpolation (source of errors).

Do we need higher res files? In the digital recording editing and mastering process where various DSP might be applied, yes. You can easily see the difference in distortion of the waveform in the digital editor, DAW or mastering software. At that level it is audible. By the time it gets down sampled to CD quality (or worse yet, some MP3 or Apple version) for the consumer I doubt anyone can hear the difference. Any bets? :rolleyes:

In the end it's the recording engineer that's king. If it's not done right in the first place..................................

No conversion necessary. DSD can be played back through a DSD capable DAC (Hometheater AVRs to USB DACs). Simply convert DSD to analog and into your favorite analog inputs. There are lots of very affordable products out there that support DSD.

Re: Archiving. You are mixing bit depth and sample rate. DSD has an 1 bit depth and can only tell you 1 or 0, thus only about 6 dB of signal to noise. Very noisey. However because the analog waveform is being sampled at 2.8MHz there is enough data to describe the waveform, or at least the direction the waveform is going. i.e. basically, 1 is the top of the wave, 0 is the bottom and the density of 1,0's can describe the waveform. 1111111101011011100000000011101101010111111. Then through noise shaping, all that in band noise we can hear is pushed just beyond 20KHz and rises all way up to 100KHz. Google Image search DSD for a plot, you'll see the climbing noise. PCM has none of these issues, but doesn't play past 96KHz - but that is a whole other topic on, "Do humans perceive ultra sonic frequencies." DSD is great for archiving Vinyl or recording your own music, but everything else was probably made in PCM. So, I am suggesting that you save your cash on DSD Downloads, save for a few where that's the only way to get the best version or master. If the recording is made in DSD all the way from microphone to DSD file, then that should be the purist view of DSD.

All music lovers should be interesting in the future of music technology, including digital.

I don't think there is a good "resolution" definition in audio like there is for video. Simply one uses the signal to noise ratio to describe the maximum dynamic range. example: in your listening room, it's probably 35 decibels of ambient noise. That means you have to raise the noise floor of a Digital signal, say CD, to above ambient noise floor. Otherwise anything that's 35dB or less on the recording is lost in your environmental noise. interestingly CD's music signals are recorded in the last 90-96dB of the CD's 96dB of signal to noise. This is for good reason, it keeps the noise way, way down - hence the CD's clean sound. But 90dB on to 35dB gets, you 125dB!! Dangerously loud signals. Even LPs with 70dB SNR provide a good medium for music playback, but at loud volumes you'll here either the tape noise or mechanical noise from LP system itself. DSD has a SNR, for inband or what you can hear, of 150dB!

Watch these videos:

Edited by o0O Bill O0o
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At 24/96 and above I rather doubt many can tell the difference in DSD and PCM.  The beauty of DSD is both its very high resolving power as well as being a "universal" format that can be transcoded to any PCM you want without concerns of any artifacts.  2.8mhz effectively divides evenly into any PCM format, and that is a good thing.

 

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At 24/96 and above I rather doubt many can tell the difference in DSD and PCM. The beauty of DSD is both its very high resolving power as well as being a "universal" format that can be transcoded to any PCM you want without concerns of any artifacts. 2.8mhz effectively divides evenly into any PCM format, and that is a good thing.

Dave

I'd put dollars to donuts that many can't tell the difference between 16 bit and 24 bit-depths of PCM. Did you watch the videos I linked?

Switching gears to sample rate, 2.8MHz DSD is ~64 times the 44.1KHz sample rate. So yes, 2.8, 5.6, 11.2MHz and beyond DSD sample rates divide evenly into 44KHz, 88KHz, 176KHz and 352KHz. Further the noise shaped DSD, with it's high frequency noise, is low pass filtered upon conversion to PCM. (see JRiver's user guide for more info).

Again, put even more dollars to donuts that many cannot tell the difference between any flavor of DSD and 24/96KHz PCM.

I recommend transcoding DSD64 (2.8MHz) to 24 bit / 88KHz PCM and use a 6dB/octive Lowpass filter at 40Khz.

Edited by o0O Bill O0o
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Put enough time in on my DSD Capable DAC since its arrival and finally had some time to download and listen to music in DSD audio format and I have to say I'm pretty impressed so far.  :emotion-29:  :emotion-29:  :emotion-29:

 

Some of these files are massive which at this point seems to be the only down side. They're are also rather expensive to purchase but I've just been downloading free sample files so far.  :)

Check out Blue Coast music http://bluecoastmusic.com for more free samples.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PCM has none of these issues, but doesn't play past 96KHz

 

Explain what you mean here... Recording and playback of 24/192 is readily available. You can do multiple channels of 24/192 over a single Cat 5 cable.

 

Time was, when any editing of DSD meant converting to PCM, but the tools are becoming more mainstream (if you have deep pockets).

 

Bruce

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...