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etc6849

Palladiums, JL Audio F212's and lots of bass traps and absorption

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Changed my setup a little.  Here are some new plots.  Note that I use the Dirac house curve that tilts the low end up 2 dB and high-end down a 2 dB.  I just like the way it sounds with the default Dirac house curve.

 

I really just can't get over how that there is almost no ringing at 40dB down at 30 Hz and below (compare old blue and yellow waterfall plots to purple ones).  Sounds absolutely incredible, best bass I have ever heard and less than 1% total THD as measured by REW and a MiniDSP calibrated USB mic.

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Some pics of the bass trap and front, note ruler is 18" long and I cover my screen to change the aspect ratio to 2.35:1.  Just happened to work out perfectly within 1/8" on the screen masking via Owens Corning 703.

 

Trap is 4 pieces that are 4 foot x 2 foot x 8 inch for a total of: 8 foot x 2 foot x 16 inches!  That's one big bass trap.

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Are you hearing the cleaner bass from the 212's?  Are you using the SVS combined with the 212's?

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Yes it is definitely "cleaner" as there is less ringing in the waterfall plots and I could easily pick the difference out between the two.  THD was around 1% for me before with the SVS ultras.

 

I think you can do the same if you had 4 PB13 ultras and did stacks of two up front, but I don't have that kind of space.  Smaller subs mean I can fit the massive bass trap up front too.  Couldn't do that before. 

 

The two F212's are better than two SVS PB13 ultras, but only because having co-located stacked drivers really helps room issues (apparently helps it substantially as the bass trap isn't doing much at 20 Hz).  Clearly, JL Audio knows what they are doing.

 

I wouldn't buy the F212's new.  Just happen to get a very good deal on them so it was about the same as 4 ultras would have been.

 

 

Are you hearing the cleaner bass from the 212's?  Are you using the SVS combined with the 212's?

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WOW nice setup, The combo must sound fantastic.

I had it in my mind to build a 212 clone when I built mine but they were just too big for the space I had. Went with 2 separate 13W7's and 1 12W7.

Have to say the JL subs are cleaner than any sub I've had including the TC sounds LMS.

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Those upstairs rooms make for a great HT or music room.  We have a bonus room upstairs but, it is used for a bedroom for now.

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What ever it is about them they are very very clean.  Best subs I've ever heard.  Definitely more bass string detail.  I think it's the reduced ringing on the waterfall plot, but not 100% sure yet.  It is definitely audible to me though.

 

Could be their sealed design coupled with stacked drivers.  Needless to say, JL Audio engineers really know what they are doing.  It's nice to own a US made product that performs very well.  Can't say money wise they are worth it over the SVS subs, but the performance improvement is there and the deal I got was killer and made owning them possible.

 

Maybe 18" drivers can do what these things can if designed and setup properly, but I'm never going to chase single digit bass response with some 18" driver until I see waterfall plots that look like mine.  I am a bass head too, but I like my bass very accurate.

 

WOW nice setup, The combo must sound fantastic.

I had it in my mind to build a 212 clone when I built mine but they were just too big for the space I had. Went with 2 separate 13W7's and 1 12W7.

Have to say the JL subs are cleaner than any sub I've had including the TC sounds LMS.

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What ever it is about them they are very very clean.  Best subs I've ever heard.  Definitely more bass string detail.  I think it's the reduced ringing on the waterfall plot, but not 100% sure yet.  It is definitely audible to me though.

 

Could be their sealed design coupled with stacked drivers.  Needless to say, JL Audio engineers really know what they are doing.  It's nice to own a US made product that performs very well.  Can't say money wise they are worth it over the SVS subs, but the performance improvement is there and the deal I got was killer and made owning them possible.

 

Maybe 18" drivers can do what these things can if designed and setup properly, but I'm never going to chase single digit bass response with some 18" driver until I see waterfall plots that look like mine.  I am a bass head too, but I like my bass very accurate.

 

WOW nice setup, The combo must sound fantastic.

I had it in my mind to build a 212 clone when I built mine but they were just too big for the space I had. Went with 2 separate 13W7's and 1 12W7.

Have to say the JL subs are cleaner than any sub I've had including the TC sounds LMS.

 

 

Could not agree more, and yes sealed tiny subs for massive clean bass. I feel they were 100% the exrta I spent on drivers, they made my TC sound like a 12" lol

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It will take a lot of acoustical study (50-100 hours probably) to get it to sound great.  I'm glad it was the room I had to work with though as I learned a lot about acoustics getting it to sound right.

 

Those upstairs rooms make for a great HT or music room. We have a bonus room upstairs but, it is used for a bedroom for now.
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Maybe 18" drivers can do what these things can if designed and setup properly, but I'm never going to chase single digit bass response with some 18" driver until I see waterfall plots that look like mine. I am a bass head too, but I like my bass very accurate.

 

A lot of  in not about the size of the driver.  A lot of sizes can be good but setup is a big factor.  You have put in a lot time and it has paid of in setup and room design.  With subs, the room is 50%.  If my room was smaller, I certainly would not need as many subs.  Those P 39 should help with some nice imaging for movies.

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Do you have any REW files?  The problem with a large room is it's going to cost a lot more in treatments to fix it (assuming you want a waterfall plot that decay very quickly).  To give you an idea, just that large 4 part bass trap at the front I just built was about $450 in raw materials.

 

I'm afraid of ever going to large subs because every setup like that I've heard like that was a boomy mess with lots of ringing (e.g. fat muddy bass).  I have never heard a setup with lots of 18" drivers that was set up for what I'd call max performance though (40dB down on the waterfall plot a decay of less than 200ms for all frequencies and less than 1% THD ~100dB and flat response).  Not saying it's not possible,  but I've read 20-30 of these 18" DIY threads and seen very little REW files to show what real performance folks are getting (besides freq response plots measured at 120dB and smoothed and other useless graphs).

 

With subs, the room is 50%. If my room was smaller, I certainly would not need as many subs.

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