Chris A Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I was gathering information on current class D amplifiers, including ICEpower and its descendants and was wondering what the general experience was with these units, including HT and hi-fi (multichannel and stereo) use. It would be nice to consolidate the multiplicity of stereo amplifiers (Crown D-75As) and other amplifiers into one or two amplifier boxes for simplicity. I'm looking for hi-fi solutions--avoiding just low cost HT-in-the-box solutions, and mass market receivers (please -- no receivers for this survey). More channels (up to 10-12 channels) is preferred. Any first-hand experiences with sound quality? Second-hand experience? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Most of the ones I've seen are for distributed sound, meaning each channel was meant for a dinky coax in the ceiling playing background music, so I've been skeptical. Would be nice though, especially going active. Having enough channels in a single amp to power all of your highs and lows separately would be nice. Otherwise you're looking at two 5-7 channel amps taking up 8U of rack space, or with pro audio, 5-7 stereo amps taking up 10-14U of rack space. I guess I'm most skeptical of the power supply and cooling capability as well as the ability for peaks, as you're probably going to be scrimping on internal capacitors and whatnot. Edited February 12, 2016 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 Yes - the application is bi-amping something like 5 separate audio channels for a surround 5-channel or greater setup. I'm also not looking for subwoofer amplifiers in this survey, as those tend to be a different breed. Having XLR connections to a preamp/processor (AVP) is my favorite configuration to minimize common mode noise and to provide flexibility in choosing better amplifiers than those found in most receivers - and more channels for flexibility in using active crossovers. I'm a bit surprised that the higher-end HT marketplace isn't just crawling with these type of amplifiers. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Take a look at the new NAD M27. http://nadelectronics.com/products/masters-series/M27-Seven-Channel-Power-Amplifier Only 7 channels but sure looks to be a fine amp. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstrickland1 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Axiom used to make one that was very powerful. Shared power supply that was a monster. Not sure if they still make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiva Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) I have heard nothing but good things about D-Sonic, Wyred for Sound, and the Nad mentioned above. Here is a link to a guy on AVS who is just about finished building an 11 channel ICE amp. Many are waiting for him to finish and get his impressions over there. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2258594-11-channel-icepower-asx2btl-amp-build.html Edited February 12, 2016 by shiva 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 Here is a link to a guy on AVS who is just about finished building an 11 channel ICE amp over at AVS. Many are waiting for him to finish and get his impressions over there. Goodness...that's an interesting idea. It may be that all you need is one stereo amplifier of higher quality (like a First Watt, etc.) to drive the L-R compression drivers...and the rest can be pretty much garden-variety amplifiers-like good class D of the Hypex or ICEpower variety for hi-fi. (There's a good psychoacoustic reason for this.) That approach can save a lot of money on electrons that can better be put into much better compression drivers. That much difference in price on amplifiers can buy you a complete set of TAD 2" Be-diaphragm drivers, for instance. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) The trick is to keep the signal digital right up to the pulse width modulators. IOW, if the back of the amp does not accept digital inputs there'll be a DAC involved somewhere inside there, which is a compromise. To start off with requires a DSP that can handle strictly digital I/O. Examples would be the DBX 4820, DEQX HDP-4, Ashly NE Series, or the like. From there it's a matter of patching in amps....essentially anything that accepts LPCM as an input (nCore, PurePath, ICEpower, DDFA, etc.) Still doesn't consolidate the mess. Rest assured, I'd be expecting to pay a premium for the the first one that does. Edited February 13, 2016 by Quiet_Hollow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) I considered that NAD unit... but felt I would NOT be going past 5 channels for the foreseeable future, that view has not changed. Right now, I've spent most of my amplifier capital on the l/r channels and run the rest on a consolidated ice based avr... while it does sound very very good, I can see myself trying to get at least one more amp for the center channel to see if anything is gained. At this point I would imagine the gains by adding sep amps for the remaining center and l/r rears would be marginal... because I am using class D for all channels. but I continue to shop for at least a center monoblock. Sound? Multi-channel music drive thru two cornwalls and two la scalas in this manner is MAGNIFICENT! These "d" amps are clean and really fast. There is really an immediacy to the sound that is very powerful and add significantly to the sound of quick changes in some music and of course to most movies. I dont even think my system is optimized for the current set up, but the sound is so good I have been lazy with trying to get every ounce out of it. Edited February 12, 2016 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Rest assured, I'd be expecting to pay a premium for the the first one that does. Several thousand dollars (US), it seems. I agree that makes a lot more sense, but the whole world runs on economic factors and cost always matters. In the mean time, providing a simplified rack of equipment for bi-amping, using higher quality class D amplifiers that provide hi-fi output without requiring huge power supplies, or alternatively a way to provide amplifier modules that can be integrated via DIY into a user-defined package at a reasonable price relative to the cost of the loudspeakers (which should always be the high dollar piece in any hi-fi setup...if sonic performance is the primary goal) is something of interest, right now. I like the idea stacking ICEpower modules together (which I had considered at an earlier date)...assuming all other matters of connections and electric power supply are done well. Those amplifier modules are also available in a SE version at ~40W/channel into 4 ohms--versus 170W/channel into 4 ohms for the strapped output version used in the linked thread above. It makes a lot more sense from the standpoint of driving horn-loaded loudspeakers to use the lower power stereo, which also halves the cost of the amplifier modules. Five stereo modules can provide 10 channels of clean power, packaged in a single chassis with requisite XLR balanced connections to the active crossovers, at a cost of $100 per stereo module. That actually is competitive with using Crown D-75As on the used market having about the same power output. The ICEpower modules may have even higher fidelity than the Crown D-75As. As an engineer, that approach seems a lot more attractive...especially in terms of price/performance ratio and maintainability concept (i.e., just buy a couple of extra ICEpower modules as spares). Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Timely subject for me. Having now 7 QP horns has caused me to play a bit with amps. A home brew gainclone, home brew class D, my Pioneer with D3 amps, and a couple of Crowns have been in and out of the system. The D3 displaced a nice 300b tube amp. The gainclone and class D amps sounded really good for very little money but the Crowns are the ones that got my attention. They really get the QPs singing, might like them better than the D3 amps and again the price is right. Seems like we are moving in opposite directions. I really want to try a better Crown class D drivecore model. It would be interesting to see if it is the best of both worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) So you're talking about the Crown XLS series? Or are you talking about D-75As? PS-200? Edited February 13, 2016 by Chris A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I got both a PS 200 and a D75a and really like both.I would like to try an XLS2500. It has been discontinued however and I have not read up on the new model though I would assume it is the same but with DSP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) I got both a PS 200 and a D75a and really like both.I would like to try an XLS2500. It has been discontinued however and I have not read up on the new model though I would assume it is the same but with DSP. Edited February 14, 2016 by tromprof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsman Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I have been using a D-Sonic in my HT for about 5 years now. His original design was ICE power, but he is now currently using s new technology. I absolutely love it for both movies and music. High power, very little heat and not a back breaker. Mine is a 7 channel, front 3 are 525wpc and the rest are 250wpc and the amp weighs 57lbs. I also have a Wyred 4 Sound STI 1000 to mate with my RF 7's strictly for music, another great combo. They play with authority and it is very musical. The original Sunfire amps were class D and I know several who love it for music. The price tag for the D-Sonic IMHO is one of the best bang for your buck in audio. That is the next amp I will purchase for the HT if the current one ever craps out. One more note, ICE amps are the only amp I have found to be dead quiet. With everything on and nothing running, you can put your ear directly on the speaker and hear nothing. No hiss, No hum 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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