RoboKlipsch Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I'm not your pro designer or even one with any real experience, but I like looking at layouts and guessing at what might work. The atmos from what i know complicates the placement especially the ceiling...height IS critical due to use of Atmos. The first thing that strikes me with your layout is that none of the seating positions are ideal, even if you were using just a 2.1 setup. The fronts are pointing at....? what? So that's not a criticism as much as an observation. And if I'm "right" then to me it means the entire setup can be a bit of a compromise but still be way better than not trying to make it work. Using some info Chris A provided elsewhere, you COULD put the side surrounds in front of the seating positions and still get a good effect. So looking at the diagram, the points I see might be (left side) at the left back edge of the sofa...I know there is no wall there so that's the most difficult placement imo. The right surround might go above the subwoofer and just to the left of it on the diagram. Height placement would be defined by Atmos. The rear surrounds. That's why I wanted to see behind the left couch. I think you could put two bookshelf-type speakers on stands, at the inside edges where the two couches are closest. The couch on the right has to come out from the wall a foot or two for the rears. But the rears would then be narrower than the fronts and facing directly forward. That way, they could be placed at the proper height, but not fire directly at anybody on either couch. But the sweep of the surrounds should work as you'll have clear location for where those surrounds are. As suggested by someone else, a 6.1 setup could work fine but in my version of the setup, the side surrounds are not required to go behind the listeners. You'll get an amazing sweep of surround from the fronts through the sides to the closely positioned backs. And if someone sits on the floor for example (kids?) (adults ) in the perfect position it would be unbelievable. What to do about the left surround I'm not sure....but there's usually a solution. RK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Willand was very vague. I didnt understand excatly what he was telling me to do? Was he wanting me to add three rear fill speakers? Sorry about not making things clear. I did not realize you had the floorstanding front speakers with the built in Atmos modules. I was suggesting side surrounds and a single rear surround in that corner behind/between the sofa and love seat because I thought the room was more closed in. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Willand thought the lines were walls. When I saw were your left surround was I suspected there wasn't a wall to mount it like the right surround. You already have an Atmos 5.1.2. You just need to replace the 2 Bose speakers with some small Reference bookshelf speakers like the R-15M. The right surround should be closer to the corner so it's the same distance to the center listening position. I don't think you want bi-pole surrounds with them on the sides like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboKlipsch Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I think the left surround could go above the door....perhaps to the left of it. I can't tell the dimensions but it looks like maybe 5 feet or so to the door? The right surround maybe between the two pictures on the wall. The back surrounds I still think should both go one on the edge of each couch on the "inside"....right side of the left couch, left side of the right couch, facing foward on stands. It's a really big soundstage a big TV definitely helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toomnymods Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 I'm not your pro designer or even one with any real experience, but I like looking at layouts and guessing at what might work. The atmos from what i know complicates the placement especially the ceiling...height IS critical due to use of Atmos. The first thing that strikes me with your layout is that none of the seating positions are ideal, even if you were using just a 2.1 setup. The fronts are pointing at....? what? So that's not a criticism as much as an observation. And if I'm "right" then to me it means the entire setup can be a bit of a compromise but still be way better than not trying to make it work. Using some info Chris A provided elsewhere, you COULD put the side surrounds in front of the seating positions and still get a good effect. So looking at the diagram, the points I see might be (left side) at the left back edge of the sofa...I know there is no wall there so that's the most difficult placement imo. The right surround might go above the subwoofer and just to the left of it on the diagram. Height placement would be defined by Atmos. The rear surrounds. That's why I wanted to see behind the left couch. I think you could put two bookshelf-type speakers on stands, at the inside edges where the two couches are closest. The couch on the right has to come out from the wall a foot or two for the rears. But the rears would then be narrower than the fronts and facing directly forward. That way, they could be placed at the proper height, but not fire directly at anybody on either couch. But the sweep of the surrounds should work as you'll have clear location for where those surrounds are. As suggested by someone else, a 6.1 setup could work fine but in my version of the setup, the side surrounds are not required to go behind the listeners. You'll get an amazing sweep of surround from the fronts through the sides to the closely positioned backs. And if someone sits on the floor for example (kids?) (adults ) in the perfect position it would be unbelievable. What to do about the left surround I'm not sure....but there's usually a solution. RK My drawing skills suck, lol the tv is pointed almost perfectly at the couch we sit on. This was one of the first times I have used paint, and took like 2hrs to do just this drawing, lol Willand was very vague. I didnt understand excatly what he was telling me to do? Was he wanting me to add three rear fill speakers? Sorry about not making things clear. I did not realize you had the floorstanding front speakers with the built in Atmos modules. I was suggesting side surrounds and a single rear surround in that corner behind/between the sofa and love seat because I thought the room was more closed in. Bill No sorry I should've explained my drawing better theirs no walls behind the viewing couch for like 12-15 feet, only walls is the one 4' short wall directly behind subwoofer to left of the viewing couch, wall on the right and on the front. Willand thought the lines were walls. When I saw were your left surround was I suspected there wasn't a wall to mount it like the right surround. You already have an Atmos 5.1.2. You just need to replace the 2 Bose speakers with some small Reference bookshelf speakers like the R-15M. The right surround should be closer to the corner so it's the same distance to the center listening position. I don't think you want bi-pole surrounds with them on the sides like that. I have the RP series speakers think someone stated before to stay within that same series for the whole setup? I dunno why? Maybe makes it easier for the processor on my Yamaha receiver to do the processing and crossover changes thru the automated setup? I think the left surround could go above the door....perhaps to the left of it. I can't tell the dimensions but it looks like maybe 5 feet or so to the door? The right surround maybe between the two pictures on the wall. The back surrounds I still think should both go one on the edge of each couch on the "inside"....right side of the left couch, left side of the right couch, facing foward on stands. It's a really big soundstage a big TV definitely helps. this sounds like a ideal setup somewhat roboklipsch.. I'm just trying to make the room sound good from the couch we watch tv in. I totally understand it will not sound "perfect" in the right wall couch as I already plan to put "company" or "inlaws" there hahahaha could you draw me a simple drawing to kinda give me a better idea what your talking about? you can just print out my drawing and hand draw where to put the stuff and I should get the idea.. If it will help everyone more when I wake up today I can measure the dining room area and make a new picture and upload it onto page one. I have a feeling I'm going to have to end up using some of this real estate for the sound stage to make it sound right.. which I don't mind at all. long as the speakers are on the walls out of the way it'll be easier to get the wife to approve of it, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Willand thought the lines were walls. When I saw were your left surround was I suspected there wasn't a wall to mount it like the right surround. You already have an Atmos 5.1.2. You just need to replace the 2 Bose speakers with some small Reference bookshelf speakers like the R-15M. The right surround should be closer to the corner so it's the same distance to the center listening position. I don't think you want bi-pole surrounds with them on the sides like that. I have the RP series speakers think someone stated before to stay within that same series for the whole setup? I dunno why? Maybe makes it easier for the processor on my Yamaha receiver to do the processing and crossover changes thru the automated setup? RP is fine. Anything Klipsch would be better than those Bose cubes. Your front speakers should be facing STRAIGHT OUT. They should not be toed in like they are in your room. RK is right on with putting one over the door. I do not think you should be using rear speakers at all. You simply don't have a good room for it. I will throw a drawing together for you. Give me 5 minutes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) See how the front speakers are aimed straight out? Also, I swapped the two cabinets and the pictures so you could aim that right speaker out where it should be. The smallest RP is too big for above the door. Download sketchup if you would like to open the attached file below. 3d rears.zip Edited February 28, 2016 by mustang guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 The R-14M Dimensions are 9.75" H x 5.88” W x 7.5" D The RP-150M Dimensions are 14.57” x 7.67” x 10.67" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toomnymods Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) Mustang guy i guess thier might be some good news in this madness I have 9 ft ceilings I just measured. And i have excactly 21.5" from door molding to bottom of the trim coming off of my ceiling. So i should be able to fit the RP-250's or what ever RP surround speaker would sound best.. I see a line drawn between both surround speakers is this to show that they have to be at same height and at same angle? I havent messed with any of this surround sound stuff since the late 90's so i'm very rusty.. Also is it bad that i want the RP -250's over just the single direction speakers? Wouldnt broadcasting the sound various directions bounce it off the walls faster and give it better fill? Edited February 28, 2016 by toomnymods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toomnymods Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 Also amazing work on the 3d program thats soo damn neat!! What program did that? It looks excactly like my house lol more than my drawing did and i live here lol Getting soo excited cant wait to hear all of this together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaman Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I think mustang guy did a good job of redirecting your speakers and solving your problems. With your photos of the actual room it seems to me that your front speakers are aimed into no where land. If you straighten them out to direct sound at your seating area you will notice a huge improvement. Sitting int he sweet spot I think would be in the area where mustang guy angled your two couches together. I think if you go with some decent surround speakers where the rear Bose are mounted that should solve most of your problems. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Mustang guy i guess thier might be some good news in this madness I have 9 ft ceilings I just measured. And i have excactly 21.5" from door molding to bottom of the trim coming off of my ceiling. So i should be able to fit the RP-250's or what ever RP surround speaker would sound best.. I see a line drawn between both surround speakers is this to show that they have to be at same height and at same angle? I havent messed with any of this surround sound stuff since the late 90's so i'm very rusty.. Also is it bad that i want the RP -250's over just the single direction speakers? Wouldnt broadcasting the sound various directions bounce it off the walls faster and give it better fill? I was using 8' ceilings, so that's great news. the line you see is just a demarcation matching the carpeted floor. You can disregard them. As Teaman just said, anything is better than those Bose. Also amazing work on the 3d program thats soo damn neat!! What program did that? It looks excactly like my house lol more than my drawing did and i live here lol Getting soo excited cant wait to hear all of this together. Thanks. By the way, the program is free, and it's called sketchup. I put a link to it in the post with the pictures. I will update the speaker locations and the ceiling heights to 9' and above the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toomnymods Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 I know this is probably little late to ask this but what is the "preferred" audiophile speaker wire for excellent sound quality? I'd like to keep it under $2.75 a foot if possible and have it shielded if you think it needs it? Probabaly pay a home audio place to come rewire all of this beacuse the place that wired my house when it was built used cheap cheap 18 gauge wire and its crap. I hate it i'd prefer the wire that is twisted and insulated two wire and four wire for the atmos fronts. For the fronts could I get by with 16 gauge or would 14 gauge be best to use for everything?? Thanks for all your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) monoprice.com has what you need. Inside the walls this http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2820, outside of walls this http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2791 I am digging the surround speakers, but not digging above the door. Check this out with the smaller surrounds (RP-240S) : I still think you need to point the left and right fronts straight out. It looks like you will be swapping locations of the pictures and cabinets so you don't block the sound of the right front. Edited February 28, 2016 by mustang guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 There would be no measurable difference in twisted and parallel wire. Monoprice sells 4 wire CL rated. It can be found here: http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4039 By the way, they have different lengths of everything I link to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboKlipsch Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Mustang do you think the right surround could go on the right wall and design in a couple back surrounds or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClintonH Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I am digging the surround speakers, but not digging above the door. Check this out with the smaller surrounds (RP-240S) I still think you need to point the left and right fronts straight out. It looks like you will be swapping locations of the pictures and cabinets so you don't block the sound of the right front. I agree, if your giong to actually use your ATMOS speakers in your front towers you really can't go that high with the surrounds anyway. You need level seperation, I know I've said that a few times but really to use your speakers properly there are guidelines you should follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) I think you are best sticking with a 5.1.2 in this room. It simply doesn't lend itself to having more speakers. I am going to depart completely from this current design and plant an idea in your head. If you put your TV on the right wall, you will have better seating arrangement, the TV will be down where it should be, you will have better stereo separation, the window light won't compete with the TV, you will be able to see the TV from the D/R table, and you will be able to add another chair if you want. Edited March 3, 2016 by mustang guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toomnymods Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 Never heard of 5.2.1 what is that? I really dont want to move the tv.. The way DR Horton builds these houses they "prewire" the tv to go above the fireplace like i have it so no wires are shown.. They even have electrical outlets prewired to that location behind the tv. My tv is a 55" Samsung 4k 9 series HDTV with the curved front panel. So glare is very minimal and every position gets a pretty good view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toomnymods Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 Never heard of 5.2.1 what is that? I really dont want to move the tv.. The way DR Horton builds these houses they "prewire" the tv to go above the fireplace like i have it so no wires are shown.. They even have electrical outlets prewired to that location behind the tv. My tv is a 55" Samsung 4k 9 series HDTV with the curved front panel. So glare is very minimal and every position gets a pretty good view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.