Advise: New amp for my Klipshcorns

[Chris A]

A very good article related to the thread subject: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=73904

 

That article also can be found in this thread (see page 4): https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/131163-corner-horn-imaging-faq/

 

Chris

[NOSValves]

All McIntosh amplifiers use output transformers (SS and tubed) so their sound will be "darker"...whatever that means to you.

Chris

I'm not totally versed in McIntosh SS amplifiers but I'm fairly sure the above statement is false. I believe only the first few SS designs had output transformers.

Also the dark sound has nothing to do with the fact that output transformers are used. The dark bass heavy presentation of McIntosh amplifiers were tuned into the circuits and can be easily tuned out...been there done it. On fact if freshened up properly in stock form much of that dark character disappears! Although I personally think they sound great once properly and carefully refurbished...much of the reputation is garnished from owners thinking 40 to 50 year old worn out McIntosh is still sounding like it did when new. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Then factor in its pretty hard to lose money on McIntosh upon resale (if sourced smartly used) I think everyone that has the available cash should give it a whirl! Tubed or SS if not just for the fun of it.

Cheers Craig

Edited March 2, 2016 by NOSValves

[Chris A]

 

McIntosh autoformers continued to be used in the "top-of-the-line" amplifiers. They were all designed and manufactured by McIntosh. Although the autoformers added extra cost, weight and took up extra space, they assured a safe, optimum match to a variety of speakers and speaker hook-ups. They were constructed and performed in the McIntosh tradition of excellence.

 

http://www.roger-russell.com/mcintosh1.htm#autoformer

 

http://www.roger-russell.com/amplif1.htm

 

http://www.roger-russell.com/amplif2.htm

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autotransformer

 

Chris

Edited March 2, 2016 by Chris A

[joshnich]

Lots of good options pointed out here. You no doubt would be happy with virtually every one of the amplifiers mentioned. I was quoted earlier regarding the Benchmark AHB2 . I remain in awe with every listen. You (theOP) mentioned the desire to have a quiet amp. This is the the quietest amp I have seen specs on. I would say it is also the most honest in terms of transparent reproduction. You really should take benchmark up on their 30 day trial offer.

Also you can check out the reviews on the Benchmark website. Benchmark is known more in the pro audio world than they are in the audiophile world. This amp in combo with their DAC is flat out awesome.

 

JMHO!

Edited March 8, 2016 by joshnich

[Welborne]

I'm considering purchasing a new amp for my Klipschorns. My method for selections takes considerable amounts of time. I'm fairly methodical and slow to choose and I'm happy with my processes. I'm not interested in changing it.

But it occurs to me that it might be enlightening to hear what others find complimentary to the Klipschorns, and why. I'm currently thinking about trying out the Mark Levinson, McIntosh, and Emotiva brands and would like to see how you feel about them.

Also, if anyone has any suggestions for other brands that they feel go well with the speakers I would be interested in hearing your recommendations.

I do not like tubes.

Each to his on but Klipschorns/La Scalas/Cornwalls/Belles without tubes is like a day without sunshine.

I like that. I listen and build both. I just finished building a Firstwatt M2 amplifier and I am thoroughly enjoying the sound. Very very nice and smooth in mids with the SS quickness and better highs and lows. I A/B'ed the M2 a very short time with one of 3 SET's I own this morning and I would have a hard time choosing which one to listen with if I had to choose only one. Both sound outstanding with the mid-range and sound stage going to the SET but the M2 is not short in the mids or sound stage either. It all comes down to the mood I am in and the music I want to listen to. Rockers will most definitely like the M2 SS over the SET. At least most that is. It really boils down to personal preference and ones taste in music. All the Firstwatt amps I have heard sound outstanding but different in their own way. Then my 3 SET's sound great too but different from each other.

Hello Wdecho,

May be you have already mentioned this before but forgive me for asking again. Which crossover network of Klipschorn do you use with SET to good result? Do you use the klipsch stock version, or one of the after market offerings?

Cheers

[pbphoto]

McIntosh is working well for me, although I have never tried tubes or many other solid state amps.  MA6500 2-channel integrated driving a pair of Heresy 3's.  MC-58 8-channel driving a pair of La Scala 2's.  Both purchased used.  All stock.  No autoformers.  Not dark sounding at all - very musical IMHO compared to the previous SS amps I had.

[joshnich]

I am certainly intrigued with the first watt SIT. There was another first watt that you mentioned and that Reno had a used one for a good price. I actually contacted Reno regarding that amp but it had been sold (thankfully on some level!)

I think I might actually take a drive up to Reno and check them out in person. Its about a 4 hour drive so not too bad.

 

Josh

[2Bmusic]

Bella, I feel what you want. I am after the same thing. I expect many folks want the sound to be as close to original as possible. We can get close. I doubt we ever fully arrive.  BUT WE DO GET VERY CLOSE!

After talking to Mark at Reno HiFi, I feel that his advise is very good. This is by no means complete. There is a great deal to getting the best sound.

1. In one way or another, you never arrive.

2. Mark said that he other folks  listens to Mc stuff,  and when listening to Mc vs First watt or Pass labs, more prefer the NP stuff over Mc.  ..... for what that is worth.

3. I had 4~6 watt  SET playing into Khorns. Sounded great but was not enough power for the bass notes. Bass note require way more power than Mid and high. 

4. I tried 300 wattsSS XPA2 into the Khorns. Now enough for the bass, ( actually more than enough) but mid and high did not sound as good.  kind of life less... is best way i can say it. 

5. I am hoping that SS will work. Tubes sound good, but they have a limited  time of use that they sound the best, then it is down hill from there. Tube testers can not detect this.  The only way is to A/B tubes using your ears.   When does the degradation occur? NO ONE KNOWS!  It happens at different times, because nothing is perfect. I, like you do not want that variable running around in my brain. I tried it  ( tube amp) for two yrs with LaScalas. It spoiled the experience for me because I was always wondering. 

6. I am trying a FW F6.  So far the Khorns produce sound far and away better than any system I have heard.  The audio store in another city ( 120 miles from me) has a system that costs $268,000.   Mine sounds way better.... which bring to us to my final point.

7. We all listen differently and what you like I might not.   Best advise it to listen to a few different amps. That is where Reno comes in. Mark does allow this, there are restrictions, so be sure to ask. 

[Welborne]

I am one that have eargasm from using a tpa3116 (Wiener) with both of my La Scala and Klipschorn. I have a D3a-vcap-300B/6c33c single ended zero feedback tube amplifiers, a Scott 399 receiver, an El84 single ended amplifier. To my ears the tpa3116 bested them all. But not all tpa3116-based amp sound the same just like not all 300B amps sound the same. I came from Charlize 2 (Tripath 2020), Virtue Audio Tk2051 and recently someone let me borrow the Wiener tpa3116 he group-purchased.

The moment I flipped on the tpa3116 it only needed no more than a few songs to know this his the sound I have been chasing for! It has a tube warmth and euphony of a 6c33c single ended, the bass of a class ab SS amp and the treble delicacy of a DHT triode that is closer to a vt25/71a than a 300B, if you can use your imagination. I powered my tpa3116 with 13v Kingsrex linear psu (very important! Dont ever think about using a cheapo smps just because the amp is so cheap!), I set the switching frequency to 1.2mHz in BD modulation. ** setting it to 1.2mHz is crucial. Any setting below 600khz only make it sound "just okay, nothing too special". At 1.2mHz switching frequency, ready for a treat. I also tried a Chinese SMSL SA36pro class based on the same tpa3116 chip which I thinknis configured to switch only around 400-500khz), which sounded decent but lacked quite a dosage of delicacy and refinement especially in the treble departebt when compared to the Wiener Tpa3116. Difference isn't subtle.

Source is Squeezebox Touch w/ Welborne Labs linear psu---> iFi iUsbpower---> iFi iPurifier ----> iFi iLink DDC---> spdif ---> Thorsten Loesch hot-rodded Satch 1541aS2 non-oversampling dac with 12ay7 tube output----> Django TVC passive pre (with S&B tx transformers).

Basically..for weeks now I could not shake the impressive sound of the tpa3116 off my head. All my tube amps have been on silent display.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Welborne

[Welborne]

This is the board I am enjoying. It has two micro dip switch on board for setting switching frequency from 400kHz to maximum 1.2mlion Hz, choose between BD/SPW modulation. Gain can be configured too.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Welborne

[Welborne]

My mistake.,Yes its Wiener Tpa3118. The chips 3116,3116d2,3118,3118d2 etc are indeed the same chip inside in different packaging and thermal solution.

Please by all means explore and I want to see how you feel about them. I won't say they sound like tube and when I say that it means I do not use tube as necessarily a reference standard for "good sound". The Wiener tpa3118 has something unique in its sonic presentation that makes it a wonderful pairing with Klipschorn/La Scala. In the past many people described Tripath as having a sound between SS and DHT, but I think a well executed tpa3118 deserves that crown even more. You may like it, or you may not be as enthusiatic as I am with them, but they are really worthy of "having a closer look"

Edited March 8, 2016 by Welborne

[joshnich]

Something to consider

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VTL-TINY-TRIODE-25-Monoblock-Tube-Amp-Pair-SUPERB-/401082662744?hash=item5d6263bf58:g:sKcAAOSwyjBW2dA0

[sunnysal]

you have gotten good advice here. I would throw my weight behind the Nelson Pass amps mentioned earlier and if not then perhaps some lower power McIntosh gear, I have had McIntosh gear hooked up to my Klipschorns and they sounded great, too powerful, but great! The Nelson Pass stuff is a no brainer, great quality and legendary sound.  One piece of advice audition any amp if possible in your system, most serious dealers will allow this.  If not possible at least audition them in the dealers location and try to do so with speakers with the same family characteristics as our Klipschorns.  Auditioning is the only way to make these type of important decisions.  best of luck and let us know how it all turns out!  regards, Tony

[AllenTacey]

Late to the party! Go with the 75lbs mono block vintage Carvers? I heard a setup with these 150 pounds of tubes connected to Quad Electrostatic speakers back in 1989-90 a saxophonist just as if he were in the room so amazing I wondered if box speakers can produce that same effect. Have not tested anything yet but I hope to achieve that when I am finished with my setup here!