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elviszappa

Epic CF-3 version 1 owners ...

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Has any CF-3 version 1 owner compared their crossovers to the schematic's CF-3 (pn) and CF-3 B and confirmed which is truly version 1 (if either is!)

 

What bothers me is that in schematic CF-3 (pn) there appears to be a revision(?) in the upper right corner " F: Changed for smoother response". Also, like schematic CF-3 B, at the bottom it list the wire colors.

 

I can't help but wonder if these are schematic's of version 2 and 3 ... and not the original version 1. From what I have read there were crossover changes made with each version so it seems there should be 3 schematic's not 2. I would love to have this cleared up before I start my crossover upgrade.

 

Also ... what is the exact length of the ports on version 1's? I have seen them listed from 5 1/2 to 6 inches.

CF-3 (pn).pdf

CF-3 B.pdf

Edited by elviszappa

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Also ... what is the exact length of the ports on version 1's? I have seen them listed from 5 1/2 to 6 inches.

 

 

Here is the port on the CF-4.  It is 5.5", measured from the inside of the lip to the edge.

 

post-58280-0-75120000-1459274934_thumb.j

Edited by wvu80

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I found this in the crossover forum. Another user, marems, posted it.

 

"Here are the stock cap and resistor values for my Ver.1 CF-4 crossover components: 10w 7ohm 10w 3ohm 10w 1ohm 10w 8ohm 10w 2ohm. Caps: 1.5uf, 3.5uf, 5.0uf, 15uf :::::::: 40mfd, 57mdf."

 

This is somewhat criptic and needs to be drawn in a shematic.

 

Then I asked around on some other forums, and got chewed out a little.

 

Author un-named.

 

"The two caps are in the input of the horn section the first is (just going by the posted schematic) 4.24 uF cap it gets larger and the second is the 15 uF cap. You need to play with the values they vary the roll on rate of the horn it is not a major shift and you might find that you may well prefer the balance Roy chose when he built them or maybe not. The point I am trying to make is this is a real flavor change mod it is not fixing something broken. So if you are not prepared to buy new caps of the original value and burn them in and new value caps and burn them in also then switch them in and out til you decide which you like best leave it be. I do like to improve things when and where I can but flavor shifting is a lot of fuss and I would suggest you leave it to the very last and not just assume that you will like Roy's first or second choice. A set of DH1506 will make for a way larger difference. So don't just run head long into changes for the sake of changes the Rev 3 boards sound fine I ran them for 3 - 4 months and had no issues with them the last time that I had them out. Do what you like but if you are not going to make the effort to evaluate both old and new value with the same brand and style caps one against the other then you are wasting your time and money and just jumping into something blind. I have forgotten the values that I used I have three different sets of Cf networks and they cap values are not on my radar at the moment. I switched from the CF3/4 horn to a double cutaway Karlson K-ube and that is a very much larger change so is the switch I made from the stock K63 to the DH1506 and then to the DH1A. Those caps are a flavor change to be made later not sooner."

 

I feel someone has a VER1 shematic. The 2 that I have seen are VER2  and VER 3, I think.

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I can't shed any light on this, except to say that you shouldn't assume that the original version of the crossover had no noted changes. Changes may have been made to the pre-release version and noted on the first release version. Just a possibility.

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Welcome to the forums, Mr Yeliab1 with your post #1 directly above ^^^.

 

I'm not sure I've ever seen a schematic for the version 1 CF-3.  Here is what we know:

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/159405-klipsch-epic-owners-group/?hl=%2Bepic+%2Bowners

 

I've got a couple of schematics for the CF-3, but I'm not sure what they are.  One says CF-3 B p/n 116374 #3. 

CF-3 B pn 116374 # 3(3).pdf

 

 

My other one says CF-3pn_1163421. 

CF-3_pn_1163421 (1).pdf

 

I also have some pics of the CF-3 v3 crossover if that helps.  Here is one pic.

post-58280-0-41620000-1461441528_thumb.j

Edited by wvu80

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I found this in the crossover forum. Another user, marems, posted it. "Here are the stock cap and resistor values for my Ver.1 CF-4 crossover components: 10w 7ohm 10w 3ohm 10w 1ohm 10w 8ohm 10w 2ohm. Caps: 1.5uf, 3.5uf, 5.0uf, 15uf :::::::: 40mfd, 57mdf."

 

I'm trying to work this into schematic using the CF-3 (pn) as a starting point. I sure wish I knew were 5uf is located in HF section. Either before the .650mh (FC) or between the 1.0mh an the 2ohm resistor. Any thoughts anyone?

 

Then again these parts are from a CF-4 ver. 1 ... they may not be the same in a CF-3 ver. 1

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I posted those values from my CF4 V1. Unfortunately I don't have any further information about the schematic. Good luck though!

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This is the schematic for the CF-4 Version 3.  The reference to the red and black wire is the giveaway.

+++

 

I'm not sure what you "tried again?"

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Ok...elviszappa posted this:

" I sure wish I knew were 5uf is located in HF section. Either before the .650mh (FC) or between the 1.0mh an the 2ohm resistor. Any thoughts anyone?

Then again these parts are from a CF-4 ver. 1 ... they may not be the same in a CF-3 ver. 1"

 

And then I tried to post CF-4 schematic. The schematic did not post.

Then I posted again, with "tried again". And the CF-4 schematic posted.

Then you posted that it was a CF-4 schematic, and what was it "I tried again".

Then I posted this.....

 

And I think all the schematics have a reference to red/black wiring. Look at the CF-3's, they all refer to red/ black also.

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I was following you yeliab1 ... and it all help's. Comparing the CF-4 ver.3 to the CF-3 ver.3 it looks like the HF is pretty close but the LF has larger differences in values. I'm sure do to the 12" vs 10" drivers. I my my mind using the CF-4 ver.1 values above will not help me in reconstructing a schematic for the CF-3 ver.1. Back to were I started I guess.

Edited by elviszappa

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So what were after is what frequency the horn is crossed over at.

Does anyone know in regard to the 3 versions of this crossover?

                                                                                               

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I have done a little upgrading on my CF-3s and I though I would pass on what I have discovered. First I pulled my ports an added port tube extensions to make the 5 1/2 inches long. Next I pulled the horns and dampened the back with a dynamat like sound deadener. Well I had them out I also replaced the paper thin gasket with some 1/8 thick gasket that I got from parts express. I ended up doing this to all the drivers. These made a huge improvement in the "ringing" (sort of) that you could here when you tapped on the horn. At this point I though I should take pictures to document what the inside of a stock pair looks like. I found many curios things. Check the pictures below.

 

The first speaker I opened had colored wiring so along with the short ports, I guessed I must have Ver. 3...maybe Ver. 2. I should remind everyone that my speaker are the CF-3 with no serial numbers that are mentioned in another post with that title. They do actually have serial numbers but they are so faded that they can't be read. Anyway when I opened the second speaker ... monster cable wiring! I read a blog (https://silverfacestereo.com/2015/05/13/epic-klipsch-cf-4/), where the writer had found the same thing in his CF-4's. Mine must be a mismatched pair, serial number wise or they were made right  near when they were switching types of wire (!). Who knows.

 

So I dug deeper. I looked at both crossovers (without removing them) and they matched. My pair match the CF-3 (not the CF-3 B) schematic. I fairly confident that they are Ver. 2's. An other things I found is none of my drivers are labeled. I have seen some pictures that show stickers with part numbers. Mine have none. Now the top drivers only in each speaker have a faint stamp on the back of the cone that reads " DU 56 ( 4 ) or maybe OO 56 ( 4 ) or even DU 56 147 ... but this is only on the top woofers, the bottom one have nothing.

 

I also looked closely at the foam damping and how it was arranged. It is made up of pieces that are 27" long, 12" wide and 1" thick. Both speakers were arranged in a specific pattern. Starting at the top front one piece form front to back and then down the back to about even with the first brace. Then another wrapped around in the other direction covering both sides and making the back double thick. Behind the horn and also the bottom there were 2 pieces that started from each side and over lapped in the back make the back double thick as well. The bottom "floor' was bare. It is obvious that the foam was not just jammed in there randomly, but instead was placed it a thought out pattern, all side covered with a 1" layer and the back with a 2' layer and the floor nothing. 

 

The last thing I found was the back of the woofers are vented with a small screen covering the hole. On one of my woofers the screen was loose so I took it off to re-glue it. The inside is interesting and hard to describe. There is a hole that goes down 3/4" and then there are 2 holes, opposite each other that go into what you would think was the magnet. I assume this is to vent the voice coil for cooling.

Edited by elviszappa

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Foam ... sorry these have gotten turned around, I can't get them to post right side up.

 

pic 1 is the foam

 

pic 2 is showing the top with side piece removed

 

pic 3 is looking at the middle, down from the top

 

pic 4 is the bottom of one speaker

 

pic 5 is the bottom of the second

post-27153-0-28840000-1463057894_thumb.j

post-27153-0-67760000-1463057914_thumb.j

post-27153-0-35720000-1463057968_thumb.j

post-27153-0-18080000-1463058088_thumb.j

post-27153-0-89000000-1463081191_thumb.j

post-27153-0-75360000-1463081247_thumb.j

Edited by elviszappa

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