MookieStl Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Anarchy subwoofers are tapped horns with too small a driver and too low tuning to have any substantial output, maybe OK in a small room i would guess. The anarchy sub is much better than OK but is limited to small rooms (unless you add a bunch of them but that defeats the purpose). I have two that keep up with my Belles but they are in a small room (13 x 20). I only drive the Belles with an 80 watt NAD integrated amp, so not pushing real high db's, but I do listen loud at times and they sound great. I only reach their max capacity when I am intentionally testing their limits (or drunk). Scrappy, what high pass did you use? I see a couple on PE @ 30 or 20 hz that are about $25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 (edited) Anarchy subwoofers are tapped horns with too small a driver and too low tuning to have any substantial output, maybe OK in a small room i would guess. The anarchy sub is much better than OK but is limited to small rooms (unless you add a bunch of them but that defeats the purpose). I have two that keep up with my Belles but they are in a small room (13 x 20). I only drive the Belles with an 80 watt NAD integrated amp, so not pushing real high db's, but I do listen loud at times and they sound great. I only reach their max capacity when I am intentionally testing their limits (or drunk). Scrappy, what high pass did you use? I see a couple on PE @ 30 or 20 hz that are about $25. Show me some numbers and i will be a believer. Edited April 3, 2016 by jason str Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 In post 17; " also needs no high pass filter "... I missed something here: if a filter were used on a sub would it not be a low pass filter so the lows would pass to it? And, in the case of the Tubas, what dynamics eliminate the need for a high pass filter? Best to ask the designer to get the best answer. >here< Do Tubas need, or do better, with ANY filters (or none)? Assuming that "filter"="crossover". Low pass filter is a must. Well, I intend to build a Tuba HT and am unsure if a passive crossover is even required. Active X/O I get. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 ... Scrappy, what high pass did you use? I see a couple on PE @ 30 or 20 hz that are about $25. Those inline filters are likely -3db at the crossover point, and -6db per octave. That isn't much protection from over-excursion. For a HPF on a sub, you would want something with a much steeper slope. A miniDSP could handle this. A passive could too, but it would need to be a 3rd order IMO. You should drop this question on the BFM forums as Jason mentioned to 7heavenlyplaces above. You might ask "Would the table tuba benefit from a HPF?" My bet would be that Bill Fitzmaurice will answer that pointed question with a direct answer, and likely some explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieStl Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Jason, you kinda missed my point. I just wanted to state that they are much better than the "OK" you gave them. I would love to have a table tuba or F-20 but do not have that much space. I also didn't like the conventional subs I tried. These looked like a fun project, so I built them. Plenty of graphs out there that show how low they go. They do add to the bottom end in MY set up (small room, music only, not concert level) Expecting a 6.5 inch subwoofer to keep up at all levels and conditions with a 15 inch folder horn is taking a knife to a gunfight, but until you push way past what I do, it holds it's own and enhances that little bit of bottom end the Belles miss. What matters is that they DO sound nice with the Belles in ths scenario. You don't need numbers to hear it. Stop in on your way to Hope, I'm about half way there. Hear for yourself. It is very nice (IMO). Mustang has pointed out that mine are actually Lil' Mike version. Mustang, thanks for the info, that is what I thought, needs a steeper slope. It was just a thought, don't think I need a mini DSP as I try to keep it simple (like me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Jason, you kinda missed my point. I just wanted to state that they are much better than the "OK" you gave them. I would love to have a table tuba or F-20 but do not have that much space. I also didn't like the conventional subs I tried. These looked like a fun project, so I built them. Plenty of graphs out there that show how low they go. They do add to the bottom end in MY set up (small room, music only, not concert level) Expecting a 6.5 inch subwoofer to keep up at all levels and conditions with a 15 inch folder horn is taking a knife to a gunfight, but until you push way past what I do, it holds it's own and enhances that little bit of bottom end the Belles miss. What matters is that they DO sound nice with the Belles in ths scenario. You don't need numbers to hear it. Stop in on your way to Hope, I'm about half way there. Hear for yourself. It is very nice (IMO). Mustang has pointed out that mine are actually Lil' Mike version. Mustang, thanks for the info, that is what I thought, needs a steeper slope. It was just a thought, don't think I need a mini DSP as I try to keep it simple (like me) Have not seen any charts but knew the could not keep up with Belles, even with 50 watts they are stupid loud but i can see them being better than DR types matching up with horns if they blend nice enough. If you decide to build something build the THTLP, it is a far better design than the F-20. Not sure about Hope as of yet, not looking great. People love buying cheap Chinese made crap, puts a big dent in sales. As long as you are satisfied that is all that counts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Anarchy subwoofers are tapped horns with too small a driver and too low tuning to have any substantial output, maybe OK in a small room i would guess. The anarchy sub is much better than OK but is limited to small rooms (unless you add a bunch of them but that defeats the purpose). I have two that keep up with my Belles but they are in a small room (13 x 20). I only drive the Belles with an 80 watt NAD integrated amp, so not pushing real high db's, but I do listen loud at times and they sound great. I only reach their max capacity when I am intentionally testing their limits (or drunk). Scrappy, what high pass did you use? I see a couple on PE @ 30 or 20 hz that are about $25.i set hpf in the inuke that powers them. It has a very nice dsp capability built in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieStl Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 yeah Scrap, I'm just using a 230 watt Dayton stand alone amp. Low pass (set at 90 ish) but no high pass. Really isn't a problem, but thought I would give it a try if easy and cheap enough. These have been an experiment the whole time. Work very well for what I need at this point and were fun to build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim. Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 f you decide to build something build the THTLP, it is a far better design than the F-20. How is the THTLP far better than the F-20? The manner of how it is built, design is better constructed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim. Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 f you decide to build something build the THTLP, it is a far better design than the F-20. How is the THTLP far better than the F-20? The manner of how it is built, design is better constructed. Please explain this and how does it translate to better performance? I was under the impression that the F-20 is an easier build with less complex cuts. Does the F-20 lack bracing or some have some other fundamental structural shortcoming? The F-20 appears to have lower extension. Do we have measurements which show lower distortion of the THTLP over the F-20? I had a long talk with Bill about the F-20 wondering myself. Never said anything about performance, distortion or extension but there are some numbers out there if you wish to compare in my link provided <here> and everything else is available at BFM websight. The THT has been updated and perfected throughout the years into a better design, if i recall the early THT was of built with 3/4 stock as well. Mike had purchased THT plans from Bill and basically refolded the design much like many Klipsch designs have been copied over the years. The F-20 is easier to build because it is less complex. A high pass filter is also recommended for the F-20 where the THT series reaches X-max @ 22 Hz and needs no high pass filter because it was designed properly. In basic terms one was designed by a professional and the other by a weekend warrior. I see nothing wrong with building your own designs, in fact I'm all for it but the differences are clearly seen if you put the two side by side. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim. Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 x 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Interesting builds coming from Funk Audio - 15inch Horn Sub builds. Maybe something to keep our eyes on? http://www.funkaudio.ca/store/p46/15.H_Horn_subwoofer_pair.html Looks like it might be funky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 f you decide to build something build the THTLP, it is a far better design than the F-20. How is the THTLP far better than the F-20? The manner of how it is built, design is better constructed. Please explain this and how does it translate to better performance? I was under the impression that the F-20 is an easier build with less complex cuts. Does the F-20 lack bracing or some have some other fundamental structural shortcoming? The F-20 appears to have lower extension. Do we have measurements which show lower distortion of the THTLP over the F-20? I had a long talk with Bill about the F-20 wondering myself. Never said anything about performance, distortion or extension but there are some numbers out there if you wish to compare in my link provided <here> and everything else is available at BFM websight. The THT has been updated and perfected throughout the years into a better design, if i recall the early THT was of built with 3/4 stock as well. Mike had purchased THT plans from Bill and basically refolded the design much like many Klipsch designs have been copied over the years. The F-20 is easier to build because it is less complex. A high pass filter is also recommended for the F-20 where the THT series reaches X-max @ 22 Hz and needs no high pass filter because it was designed properly. In basic terms one was designed by a professional and the other by a weekend warrior. I see nothing wrong with building your own designs, in fact I'm all for it but the differences are clearly seen if you put the two side by side. BFM is a pro it is true, but lilmike aint no slouch. I definitely would not call him a weekend warrior. The real genius of our age is Tom Danley. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I definitely would not call him a weekend warrior Or a rip off artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I definitely would not call him a weekend warrior Or a rip off artist. I never used that term but call it whatever you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 If there is any doubt to my claim check the dates and compare for yourself. >link< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 So it took him 4 years to refold the horn? I still call BS. You can believe what you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 So it took him 4 years to refold the horn? I still call BS. You can believe what you like. I believe because i know some of the behind the scene facts you are not aware of. Not really my business anyways but call it as i see it. Just a good thing Bill did not teach him everything he knows on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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