Khorn substitute

[Wrinkles]

this is probably my next stop!

You will not regret it. This picture was of my LaScalas. I thought I was in heaven until...

I went Jubilee.

[Chris A]

Maybe  Chris can chime in but I wonder how his idea of the multiple driver K402 would fit (by itself) on top of a Danley subwoofer?

 

Would the 402 with the woofers attached go low enough to mate up with the sub?

 

The multiple-entry K-402 would be the design that I'd use, since it can also use a wall instead of a corner quite well. 

 

Tapped horn subs, like the Danley DTS-10 are very compact and work well in those situations where you just don't have the real estate to use a conventional horn-loaded subwoofer. The downside, of course, is twofold:

 

1) tapped horns usually are good to about 2 octaves of bandpass, maximum, and,

 

2) the precursor pulse of tapped horns means that you're going to need to place them behind a barrier in order to kill off that precursor pulse at midrange frequencies that you don't want to hear.  I do that with my two TH-SPUD clones by placing them directly behind the Jubilees in the corners.  But TH subs are a bit notorious for sounding odd if you don't take this precaution.

 

If you've got the room, a conventional horn like a Bill Fitzmaurice design or some compact design from the pro audio world would suffice.

 

Using the quarter pie design would be a better horn than just the La Scala, since you're only bending the horn's axis by 90 degrees instead of 180 degrees for the La Scala.  This is a big deal for the midbass frequencies from 200-500 Hz---that most people seem to forget about.  The K-402 multiple entry design doesn't bend the axis at all, so it's midbass performance is uncompromised in comparison.  This includes the full coaxial driver arrangement,  with the crossover occurring inside the same horn body, thus enforcing the polars and resolution of any off-axis effects to be summed by the horn itself.

 

Chris

[Zim.]

x

[JJkizak]

 

this is probably my next stop!

You will not regret it. This picture was of my LaScalas. I thought I was in heaven until...

I went Jubilee.

 

You gotta love that big *** horn. It's a real salivator.

JJK

[Chris A]

the precursor pulse of tapped horns means that you're going to need to place them behind a barrier in order to kill off that precursor pulse at midrange frequencies that you don't want to hear

 Could you please briefly explain this in very simple terms?

 

Yes.  A tapped horn schematic from Danley's patent is below, is like a rear-loaded horn with the direct radiator front portion of the assembly pushed back inside the mouth of the horn:

 

 

So, like a rear-loaded horn, when you put an impulse to it, you get two pulses: one from the direct radiator portion closest to the mouth, and one from the throat of the horn, much deeper and higher amplitude at low frequencies.  The first pulse is what you don't want to hear.

 

EDIT: here is an impulse plot of the DTS-10.  Notice the precursor pulse before time zero:

 

 

Chris

Edited April 6, 2016 by Chris A

[Zim.]

x

[Chris A]

The precursor is inherent in the design and cannot be processed out (just like a rear-loaded horn).  it is the price you pay for using the frontwave or backwave of the driver to add with the longer path length main pulse of the driver through the horn to increase overall efficiency. 

 

The TH design is usually in a very small outside enclosure size relative to the wavelengths of sound that are being reproduced internally to the folded horn.  That is the advantage that you're trading off.

 

Chris

[Chris A]

I'm not familiar with the lilwrecker - is there a link?

 

The difference in path length for a DTS-10 or a TH-SPUD is about 20 feet...more than 22 ms of delay.  That's audible as two pulses when you hit the horn with an impulse. 

 

Chris

Edited April 5, 2016 by Chris A

[Zim.]

x

[Chris A]

That TH sub (lilwrecker) is simulated within Hornresp at 21 feet, 4 1/2 inches overall length (including mouth portion beyond the driver's diaphragm) so it will have about the same properties of a SPUD or DTS-10 in terms of its impulse response, which both have over 21 feet of path length.

 

Chris

[Coytee]

Tapped horn subs, like the Danley DTS-10 are very compact and work well in those situations where you just don't have the real estate to use a conventional horn-loaded subwoofer. The downside, of course, is twofold:

 

But Chris... (I'm not sure if you answered what I was looking for or, if I just didn't recognize it)

 

If you have a Danley DTS-10 for example, and you have your multiple entry K402 and nothing else...(other than an active) would those two items be able to find a suitable crossover point such that they'd work together as a quasi '2-way' or would you still need a midbass bin like the LaScala bottom?

[moray james]

8o - 90Hz. is a where a LaScala should be crossed over for best results. So long as your sub is good to that crossover frequency and rolls smoothly beyond that you should be good to go. You would not want a sub running up to meet a K402. So yes you will need a mid/bass cabinet to run between the sub and the K402.

[Chris A]

If you have a Danley DTS-10 for example, and you have your multiple entry K402 and nothing else...(other than an active) would those two items be able to find a suitable crossover point such that they'd work together as a quasi '2-way'

 

Yes.  I'd cross at ~45-60 Hz.  The DTS-10 needs to be EQed flat above 50 Hz, and the New Center (K-402 multiple entry horn) can easily extend to 40 Hz, especially if you place them in corners, but it isn't necessary to have them there.

 

 

 

Chris

Edited April 6, 2016 by Chris A

[Chris A]

The K-402 multiple-entry horn actually has much lower higher-order harmonic distortion in this region (40-60 Hz) than the measured harmonic distortion of the Jubilee bass bins in my room.  [The preceding statement isn't true--each bass horn has its advantages and disadvantages.] See https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/161404-a-k-402-based-full-range-multiple-entry-horn/?p=1994221