Nurburgring hot lap in an Ariel Atom

[Islander]

In the mood for a fast ride?  Here ya go! 

 

If you're not familiar with the Ariel Atom, it's a sort-of-street-legal car that's more like an open-wheel racer.  It has no body, just an exposed tube frame, with individual fenders on each wheel.  Not so much fun on a rainy day, but it sure flies around racetracks.  There's only one street-legal one in Canada, and probably not too many in the US.

 

Although most of its available engines are 3 litres or less, it's amazingly light weight of about 1350 pounds means that it's competitive with nearly every car on the market, including very expensive supercars.  Zero-to-60 mph numbers like 2.8 seconds or less give you some idea of its acceleration.

 

Here's the video.  It's under 11 minutes long.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abAogAUyoTE

 

 

And here's the Wiki page about the car:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Atom

 

One English police force has an Atom cop car for promo purposes.  Unlike the case with most cop cars, sportbikes will not be able to outrun it, so the idea is to encourage safer riding.  Or else!

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/480477/Avon-and-Somerset-police-use-Ariel-Atom-as-cop-car

 

[dtel]

Very cool, started watching and couldn't stop.

[CECAA850]

He's done that before.

[BusaDude]

The Atoms are quick, but they won't keep up with a current 1000 cc sport bike...

Up to 60 mph or so, most of the Atom models will stay with a sport bike... Meaning 0-60 mph in the 2.5 second range.

At anything above that, the Atoms will start losing ground. And by 100 mph will be about 1 second behind a 1000 cc sport bike (capable of 0-100 in 5.5 seconds).

Top speed wise most of the Atom models are done by 150 mph or so. The V-8 Atom, with 500 hp, will get to 170 mph. Every current 1000 cc, 4 cylinder or 2 cylinder (Ducati) sport bike will do 186 mph with no problems.

The article for the Atom cop car says it was never used on the streets and would only do 155 mph. My Hayabusa will do that in 4th gear.

[Schu]

The only thing that matters is the time...???

[BusaDude]

The only thing that matters is the time...???

No...???

[Scrappydue]

loved it

[Schu]

I still dont see a time...

[Islander]

The Atoms are quick, but they won't keep up with a current 1000 cc sport bike...

Up to 60 mph or so, most of the Atom models will stay with a sport bike... Meaning 0-60 mph in the 2.5 second range.

At anything above that, the Atoms will start losing ground. And by 100 mph will be about 1 second behind a 1000 cc sport bike (capable of 0-100 in 5.5 seconds).

Top speed wise most of the Atom models are done by 150 mph or so. The V-8 Atom, with 500 hp, will get to 170 mph. Every current 1000 cc, 4 cylinder or 2 cylinder (Ducati) sport bike will do 186 mph with no problems.

The article for the Atom cop car says it was never used on the streets and would only do 155 mph. My Hayabusa will do that in 4th gear.

 

That's true, but most racetracks (with a few exceptions, like Le Mans, or real road courses, like the Isle of Man) don't have long enough straightaways to allow the highest performance bikes and cars to reach their top speeds.  Most of the action takes place at speeds easily reachable by the Atom.  Did you see how many Porsche 911s the Atom flew past?  Most of them would have higher, maybe much higher, top speeds than the Atom, but with their lower cornering speeds, they would not have as hard a drive out of the corners as the Atom, and that makes a difference that adds up all the way to the next corner.  To be fair, three of the 911s had white signs on their doors, so they may have been rent-a-racers, driven by first-timers on the track.

 

Due to their very high power, modern supersport bikes cover a standing quarter-mile very quickly, in spite of having poor aerodynamics, with C_D numbers as high as 0.56 in the case of the Hayabusa, probably the most aerodynamic street bike on the market.  The Atom also has poor aerodynamics by car standards, at 0.4 C_D, so its top speed is limited, relative to full-bodied high-performance road cars.  Also, light weight helps acceleration, but not top speed, where horsepower and aerodynamic drag are the most important factors.

 

However, unlike most road cars, track-oriented cars that are very light and have lots of tire contact area relative to their weight can generate braking and cornering forces that are hard for any bike to match.  Many sportbikes can generate 1g or more of cornering force, which surpasses most road cars, but Formula 1 cars can reach figures like 4g, which no bike can come near.  The longer wheelbase and lower overall height, combined with those huge tires, also mean that the F1 cars can brake much later than any bike.  It all adds up to really quick lap times for F1 cars, in spite of not being as fast as the MotoGP bikes in a straight line.

 

To get those high cornering and braking forces, the F1 cars have wings and other ground effects that raise the cars' C_D to as high as 0.6, so MotoGP bikes have higher top speeds, at 350 km/hr plus.

 

In absolute terms, the Atom has two drawbacks, poor aerodynamics and limited horsepower, and yet it was leaving every other vehicle behind, with the exception of the black Corvette.  A big sportbike will run away from it in a straight line, but I'd like to see the Atom's time around the 'Ring compared with that of a modern sportbike like the Yamaha R1M.  The R1M would likely pull away on every straight, but be caught by the later-braking faster-cornering Atom approaching every turn.

 

Long ago, after I'd been away from racing for nearly ten years, I went back to Shannonville (a track east of Toronto, where I briefly held a lap record in my class) for a track day with my FZ1000 (FZ750 w/FZR1000 engine).  It's a tight track, and with my street gearing I was barely getting into 3rd gear.  A friend and former competitor of mine, who'd kept going to the track and had maintained his skills, was able to lap me with his stripped-down Ninja 500 running slick tires.  Horses for courses.

 

 

If you're wondering where I got the aero number for the Hayabusa, it was from this Cycle Canada article:

 

http://www.sportrider.com/tunnel-vision

Edited April 7, 2016 by Islander

[BusaDude]

Oh I know... I was only talking about straight line acceleration and top speed.

I'm a long time F1 and MotoGP fan and am quite familiar with the ability of a track car to out corner and out brake a motorcycle. But it's still fun messing with the folks in the Porches and Corvettes who don't quite understand power to weight ratio.

I've been to both F1 and MotoGP races at Circuit Of The Americas in Austin and both are a sight to behold. And as you pointed out, the F1 cars put the MotoGP bikes to shame... There's a 23 second difference in the lap records. Though the MotoGP bikes were doing 210-212 mph down the back straight compared to 204-206 mph for the F1 cars (this was 2012 & 2013). The lap records are current, but I assume both are going faster now down the back straight.

Here's a couple links to the Rings' record times... I don't see the Atom in this list. And the fastest current time by a relatively stock BMW S1000R is 7:23. That puts it ahead of a lot of "fast" cars. No telling what a MotoGP or World Superbike would be capable of doing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times

http://m.autoevolution.com/almost-stock-bmw-s1000rr-sets-7-23-lap-time-at-the-nurburgring-video-98740.html

Edited April 7, 2016 by GPBusa

[Islander]

So you're hip to the F1 scene and what the cars can do?  It looks like you're more up to date than I am.

 

I was amazed to learn that the current engines are only 1.6 litres, and it appears that my cornering force number is out of date, since now they can reach 5g.  The complexity of the driving tasks also amazes me, as shown by all the switches on the steering wheels.  It seems barely possible to tinker with the various settings while lapping at competitive speeds.

 

This article mentions some of that:  http://www.gizmag.com/2015-formula-1-power-plants-engines/35910/

 

The other links on that page look pretty interesting, too.

 

BTW, have you seen this video?  It's a staggered-start race between Giacomo Agostini in a Ferrari Testarossa, Didier deRadigues on an FZ750, and Eddie Lawson on a YZR500, probably from the mid-1990s.  The narration is in Italian, but it's easy to see what's happening.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAqXIU46DlE&nohtml5=False

 

 

Are you going to the MotoGP in Austin next week?  This year is going to be interesting.  What do you think about the way last season ended up?

 

The link to the Nurburgring lap times turned up something interesting down in the 9:59 entry, a rivalry between Jeremy Clarkson and a girl called Sabine Shmitz, who told him he was so slow that she could match his Jaguar lap time in a Ford Transit van.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Islander

[mustang guy]

...

 

The link to the Nurburgring lap times turned up something interesting down in the 9:59 entry, a rivalry between Jeremy Clarkson and a girl called Sabine Shmitz, who told him he was so slow that she could match his Jaguar lap time in a Ford Transit van.

[Islander]

Good one!  Sabine really had on her race face during that fast lap.  I'd like to have heard the sportbike riders and Porsche drivers talking among themselves after they left the track.  Half of them would be boggled that a van had left them in its dust, and the other half would probably have pretended it never happened and resolved to never speak of this again.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Islander

[twk123]

This is still my favorite and is a classic in every sense:

 

RUF Yellowbird around the 'Ring

 

[BusaDude]

The peak cornering and braking forces on the F1 cars are amazing!

The current turbo 1.6 liter V6's, with the electric motors and batteries, are just now getting down to the lap times of the old 3 liter V10's (from 10 years ago). And most of that (cornering & braking) is through aerodynamic improvement.

The V10's back then were making nearly 1000 HP at 19000 rpm, but the current power units (turbo V6 & electric motor) are somewhere in the 800 HP range.

I'm not a big fan of having an electric motor, battery and energy recovery system in an F1 car. It's supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsports... But it's become (in my opinion) more of a fuel mileage contest since the amount of fuel and the maximum fuel rate are limited.

And I can't imagine trying to remember what all the switches on the steering wheel do while driving at those speeds and forces.

The MotoGP race is this Sunday. I'm going to try and get down to Circuit Of The Americas for the day. It's about 3 hours each way from the Dallas area, so I'll see if I can work it out. General admission tickets are $60, plus parking. As far as last season... I'm a Valentino Rossi fan.

[Islander]

I'm not a big fan of having an electric motor, battery and energy recovery system in an F1 car. It's supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsports... But it's become (in my opinion) more of a fuel mileage contest since the amount of fuel and the maximum fuel rate are limited.

And I can't imagine trying to remember what all the switches on the steering wheel do while driving at those speeds and forces.

The MotoGP race is this Sunday. I'm going to try and get down to Circuit Of The Americas for the day. It's about 3 hours each way from the Dallas area, so I'll see if I can work it out. General admission tickets are $60, plus parking. As far as last season... I'm a Valentino Rossi fan.

 

I agree that F1 is getting away from racers being drivers to being systems operators who do some driving, too.  This look at the steering wheel makes it really obvious, as you say.

 

F1 steering wheel explained:  http://www.wired.com/2014/05/formula-1-steering-wheels/

 

I'm also a big fan of Vale, and I think he was robbed.  I hope this season has a more fair resolution.

[CECAA850]

The V10's back then were making nearly 1000 HP at 19000 rpm, but the current power units (turbo V6 & electric motor) are somewhere in the 800 HP range.

 

I think I read that Porsche has a car with a 500 hp gas and 400 hp electric motors.  The electric system runs on 800v.

[Islander]

Sabine Shmitz was a name I'd never heard, but she seems to be well-known to fans of the Nurburgring.  It turns out that she's a taxi driver, specializing in hot laps around the 'Ring, and she's done many thousands of laps.  The track has a number of taxis that take tourists around, in case they don't feel up to mixing it up with some of the wild traffic that seems to be a feature of the place.

 

In this clip, she seems to have been born to do this job.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tG3Tx1e704&nohtml5=False

[BusaDude]

The V10's back then were making nearly 1000 HP at 19000 rpm, but the current power units (turbo V6 & electric motor) are somewhere in the 800 HP range.

I think I read that Porsche has a car with a 500 hp gas and 400 hp electric motors. The electric system runs on 800v.

Those are the LeMans prototypes of the World Endurance Series. They follow a different set of specs. Lots of technology in that series as well. Heavier, enclosed wheels, all-wheel drive, but still very fast.

They run a 6 hour endurance at Circuit Of The Americas, using the same track, and the Audi R18 has the lap record... about 9 seconds a lap slower than the F1 cars.

Audi has been running a turbo diesel in that series for years and was winning everything until Toyota and then Porche re-entered the series over the last few years.

http://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsandracing/motorsport/worksracing/racingcars/919-hybrid/featuresandspecs/

http://www.gizmag.com/porsche-919-hybrid-lmp1-vs-audi-r18-e-tron-quattro-vs-toyotats040/31081/

[Islander]

In an interview, the Audi team rep said that the limiting factor for power with the Diesel engines was the capacity of the particulate filter in the exhaust system, but I forgot whether the limit was the physical size of the filter or the amount of particulates that would come out of it.  I wonder if soot production is an inescapable feature of Diesel engines?  If these advanced engineers still have to go to add-on parts to keep the soot production within acceptable limits, it suggests that there's something fundamental about the engine that makes it produce that dirty exhaust.

 

When Diesel-powered cars win Le Mans one-two-three, that is a trend that cannot be ignored.

 

I always capitalize Diesel, because Rudolph Diesel was a person, just like Nikolaus Otto, another piston engine pioneer.  They're not just concepts.

 

Speaking of cycles, the new Chrysler Pacifica, the minivan (Why do they call 2-1/2 ton vehicles "mini" anything?) that supersedes the Town & Country and the Grand Caravan, has an Atkinson cycle engine in the hybrid model, but not in the "regular" model.  It's a modification of the well-proven Pentastar engine that's been in service since about 2010.

 

GPBusa, you may be familiar with this concept.  The compression is higher than usual, at 12.5:1, but the intake valves close later than usual, so the compression stroke is shorter than the power stroke.  This causes a bit of power reduction, but increases efficiency by a useful amount.

 

Info here:  http://www.allpar.com/model/m/pacifica/power.html#hybrid