Other speakers than Khorns...

[dtel]

Will there be Khorns there that have the Volti Audio Upgrades?  

 

Positively, not under any circumstance.   

[dtel]

 DO YALL think that room is to small for Khorns?

 

I don't think it's to small, but I have a question, if you didn't like the LaScala sound i just wanted to make sure you knew the top half of the Khorn is the same. It will sound different overall for sure but if it was the top half you did not like the khorn may give you the same problem ? 

[2Bmusic]

 

 DO YALL think that room is to small for Khorns?

 

I don't think it's to small, but I have a question, if you didn't like the LaScala sound i just wanted to make sure you knew the top half of the Khorn is the same. It will sound different overall for sure but if it was the top half you did not like the khorn may give you the same problem ? 

 

Thanks for the question.  I had very nice Lascalas. I even did the Fastlane Mid range ( squawker ?) up grade.  It was a bit better, but not worth the money.  What I did not like about the Lascalas was what happened after listening to Khorns. IMHO, 50% more from the Khorns mid to low frequency.  Way more musical and close to life!

[dtel]

Your right about the mid and low frequency's, it helps balance out the tops. To me the LaScalas are fine once you turn them up so the bottom end comes alive like outside, or try to add with a sub. imo

 

We live about an hour North of New Orleans but don't really have anything that would fit in your room easily except Cornwall lll's or I would ask you to come listen. Our 2 ch speakers are 68" wide each and we don't have Khorns.

Edited April 15, 2016 by dtel

[Marvel]

Did you drop the level of the mids some on your ls?

Bruce

[Chris A]

What I did not like about the Lascalas was what happened after listening to Khorns. IMHO, 50% more from the Khorns mid to low frequency. Way more musical and close to life!

 

This is interesting. 

 

The Klipschorn has less midbass performance than the La Scala, but about a one octave lower bass passband.  I find that's a lot to miss on the bottom end.  A lot of folks also seem to place their La Scalas away from the corners, unlike Klipschorns, thus increasing midrange/midbass notches in its 100-400 Hz region due to front- and side-wall cancellations.

 

Many people also wind up pairing their La Scalas with subwoofers to fill in that bottom octave, but instead of using horn-loaded subwoofers, they use direct radiating subwoofers instead...vented ones, at that.  So they wind up with a lot more bass distortion due to increased modulation and time-domain disturbances due to the ported subwoofer designs--something that the Khorn bass bin doesn't have.

 

The interesting thing is that the high efficiency full-range drivers (like Lowther, Fostex, Feastrex, etc.) will have worse bass distortion issues than the La Scalas + vented subwoofers. 

 

For a small room, the issues are increased.  Roy Delgado has said that, as the room gets smaller, the loudspeaker needs to get larger (i.e., the horns, that is).  So the message is that it is a directivity issue as the room gets smaller.

 

Have you heard any of the Danley Synergy horns?  I'm thinking that something like a pair of SH-50s (i.e., their coverage angles vertically and horizontally are 50 degrees) are what you probably need in a smaller room - essentially just like ClaudeJ1 has in his smallish room, combined with a good horn-loaded subwoofer like a TH-SPUD, DTS-10, or any of the Fitzmaurice DIY subwoofers.

 

The location of the loudspeakers in a small room is actually more critical than in a larger one:

• The front full-range loudspeakers need to be touching the front wall (a good placement), or in the corners with suitable acoustic absorption tiles right at the mouth of the horns on the front and side walls (the best placement),  with

   

• One or two horn-loaded subs placed one in a room corner, and the other sub placed on the midpoint of a side wall.

...Then all issues with small room acoustics are minimized.

 

Chris

Edited April 15, 2016 by Chris A

[Frzninvt]

How about a pair of these?  B&W Matrix 800's I heard them with both a pair Threshold mono block amps and a Carver Lightstar with stellar up front gear.  Very nice.

 

This system is simply marvelous.

[Chris A]

You could also use a pair of Khorn bass bins crossed with Danley SH-50s on top, and you'd have your horn-loaded "subwoofers" down to about 32 Hz...not bad. 

 

The deal with horn-loaded subwoofers is that you need something to EQ them flat and to take out their increased delay of their horns.  An A/V preamplifier (AVP) or a digital crossover (3-input channels) could do that job easily.

 

Chris

[Chris A]

Of course, you could also do the Jub-Klipschorn thing with K-402s, dual-diaphragm compression drivers that can be crossed over lower than 400 Hz, and Khorn bass bins.  That would probably be the lowest cost approach--assuming a pair of well-used Khorns cost about $1200-$1500.  Then the digital crossover will set you back about $500, and the K-402s (currently Roy has pushed the price to $1000 each, but perhaps he'll relent on that policy), and a pair of BMS 4592ND dual diaphragm drivers.

 

The total bill would be about $5K for everything at current K-402 prices.  If the K-402s can be had at $280 each, then the price drops to $3400 for the whole setup.  The only downside is the 90 degree horizontal coverage of the K-402s...which might actually be better in-room than the SH-50s, but only if the room's furnishings are arranged to avoid early reflections.

 

Chris

Edited April 15, 2016 by Chris A

[Grizzog]

What More do You need to know?

How could a Klipschorn come out on top against that?

Have you heard this ? I have....sound good? not so much!

How could a Klipschorn come out on top against that?

Well, if I had my camera, I would show you how a Klipschorn could come out on top of that.....but.....the puddle of blood & plastic under the Khorn wouldn't be pretty.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Of course a khorn would sonically, and physically, crush anything Bose.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Grizzog

[dtel's wife]

Clarification: Roy doesn't set prices, Klipsch does.

Edited April 16, 2016 by dtel's wife

[garyrc]

 

 

 DO YALL think that room is to small for Khorns?

 

I don't think it's to small, but I have a question, if you didn't like the LaScala sound i just wanted to make sure you knew the top half of the Khorn is the same. It will sound different overall for sure but if it was the top half you did not like the khorn may give you the same problem ? 

 

Thanks for the question.  I had very nice Lascalas. I even did the Fastlane Mid range ( squawker ?) up grade.  It was a bit better, but not worth the money.  What I did not like about the Lascalas was what happened after listening to Khorns. IMHO, 50% more from the Khorns mid to low frequency.  Way more musical and close to life!

 

 

 

Your right about the mid and low frequency's, it helps balance out the tops. To me the LaScalas are fine once you turn them up so the bottom end comes alive like outside, or try to add with a sub. imo

 

IMO, the differences are:

• Balance -- La Scala needs the bottom octave they don't have.  A horn loaded sub would help, with EQ, as Chris said.
• The La Scala places the midrange and tweeter much nearer the floor.  A low chair and crossed knees could block the very high frequencies.  With the Khorns, you get the advantage of height, but you should have a high ceiling, or some absorbers at the first reflection points on the ceiling (and the side FRPs, and also near the midrange horn throat -- see the post by Chris)
• I once had Khorns in a room as small as yours, but with a very high ceiling.  They sounded great from dead center, but a little less so from seats to the sides.

[Chris A]

I didn't know that his name was actually "Kliosch".  What a strange name.  I thought it was Rogelio Delgado, Jr.

 

 

Chris

[Chris A]

Yes, the problem with a Khorn, or any Heritage loudspeaker in a small room, is the 400-1700 Hz band, where the midrange horn loses polar control and puts a lot of extra energy in that band on your ceiling and floor. 

 

If you can replace the midrange horn with one that has a much higher mouth dimension vertically, and somewhat wider, too, you can keep that bandpassed energy within 60 degrees vertically and 90 degrees horizontally (like the K-402 horn does down to below 400 Hz), then you've got full polar control, and the loudspeaker will sound very much better in a small room (like a Jubilee does). 

 

The problem is, all controlled coverage horns, like the K-510 and the K-402, require EQ...

 

Additionally, the Khorn bass bin has a bit of a polar coverage issue of the opposite variety above ~150 Hz due to its twin horn mouth design.  It gets pretty narrow in terms of its horizontal coverage from 150-400 Hz, where it crosses with the K-400/K-401 midrange horn.

 

Chris

Edited April 16, 2016 by Chris A

[LarryC]

Will there be Khorns there that have the Volti Audio Upgrades?   Or other upgrades for that matter?

No one does "upgrades" for Klipsch, and you should not think that Volti, good as it is, is in any way an upgrade to Klipsch.

 

Volti is a separate and unrelated company. 

[dtel's wife]

I didn't know that his name was actually "Kliosch".  What a strange name.  I thought it was Rogelio Delgado, Jr.

 

 

Chris

Yes, it is Rogelio Delgado, Jr, who is obviously who you were referring to in your earlier post when you said, "currently Roy has pushed the price to $1000 each, but perhaps he will relent on that policy."

I'll restate my sentence for clarification (and without the obvious typographical error) Rogelio Delgado Jr., also known as Roy does not set pricing, Klipsch Group, Inc. does.

[Wolfbane]

I didn't know that his name was actually "Kliosch".  What a strange name.  I thought it was Rogelio Delgado, Jr.

 

 

Chris

 

May I suggest two warning points. One for the poster, the other for the dog he rode in with! 

[dtel's wife]

I didn't know that his name was actually "Kliosch". What a strange name. I thought it was Rogelio Delgado, Jr.

Chris

May I suggest two warning points. One for the poster, the other for the dog he rode in with!

I have a pretty high tolerance and I will let some things slide, but I will not sit by and allow "innuendos" when it comes to Roy Delgado. His reputation speaks for itself, but in his absence I will speak up every time.

Not even sure why some folks come here except to "peddle their wares"! Roy has generously shared his knowledge with way too many people, in my opinion.

Edited April 16, 2016 by dtel's wife

[Chris A]

Will there be Khorns there that have the Volti Audio Upgrades?   Or other upgrades for that matter?

No one does "upgrades" for Klipsch, and you should not think that Volti, good as it is, is in any way an upgrade to Klipsch.

 

Volti is a separate and unrelated company. 

 

 

While your second statement is demonstrably true, your first statement is a matter of opinion, I think.

 

I do believe that Greg (Volti) sells some third-party Klipsch upgrades that are real upgrades, but he has nothing to do with Klipsch.  CritesSpeakers,com also sells many upgrades, as does John (North Reading Engineering), DeanG (or whatever his forum name happens to be nowadays), FastlaneAudio sells tractrix horns made out of MDF, ALK Engineering, etc. All of these guys picked their niche and have done fairly well selling third-party upgrades to Klipsch loudspeakers.  None of these guys are Klipsch dealers, as I recall.

 

Chris

Edited April 16, 2016 by Chris A

[2Bmusic]

 

Will there be Khorns there that have the Volti Audio Upgrades?   Or other upgrades for that matter?

No one does "upgrades" for Klipsch, and you should not think that Volti, good as it is, is in any way an upgrade to Klipsch.

 

Volti is a separate and unrelated company. 

 

I would like to understand why you say Volti  is not a upgrade to KHorns. I am guessing you feel the same way for any non-klipsch mod????    MANY people have replaced the squawker ( mid range) and report that the Khorn sounds better. 

I would very much appreciate you explaining this to me. It would save me a lot of money.  Maybe I am looking / listening in the wrong way, maybe wrong expectations?   You can pm me or even we could talk on the phone. I am very open minded.  Please understand Why I am thinking about new midrange. Many times with female singers, It sounds as though the horn is distorting or shrieking as opposed to the music just flowing out.  It only does this at 80~ 85  db-spl ( an up)  at listening position... and not with all recordings. 

You help in this matter is greatly appreciated!

Edited April 16, 2016 by 2Bmusic