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Wim M

RF7 II upgrade?

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Thinking of upgrading my RF7II's to La Scala II's.  Only problem is that there is not a single dealer where they can be listened. :angry2:   I live in Belgium.   The only things I know about the La Scala II's is what I read about them on the WWW. Nothing but raving reviews, though some reporting a problem on delivering poor bass. Now I really don't know what to think about them, so, please help me out!

My RF7II's are now powered by a Parasound P5 - A21 combo.  I also have double R-115 SW's

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me!

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No poor bass on mine.

 

perhaps what some coming from other speakers might consider poor is is actually "TIGHT" bass... though a subwoofer does indeed help with extension.

Edited by Schu
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The heritage horn mid range to me allows the listener to hear where the music lives. My subwoofer has been in storage since 2010. Maybe if I listened to more pipe organ I would miss some music under 45 Hz.

Rf7 is a great speaker but the LS would best it with acoustic guitar piano and voice.

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I would not call a La Scala an upgrade.  As mentioned, there are some difference in the presentation but, both are good speakers.  It depends what look you want for the system.

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I actually just got a pair of La Scala's today and I have to say I was very pleased with the bass! As others have said I personally won't even be using my sub anymore for 2 channel listening. I'm not sure if it's just how my listening room reacts with the speakers but they actually have a lot of bass, more than my Chorus's did! With the Chorus's I felt the need for a sub, not with these. 

 

You will love them, they are fantastic and extremely gorgeous, though the RF-7ii's are gorgeous as well. Those are hands down the speakers I'd pick if I went with the modern Klipsch line over the Heritage! I just recently picked up the RC-64ii which if I'm not mistaken is the center that's supposed to go with those, and that center is absolutely breathtaking in performance and appearance! 

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One option that I use is to cross over the sub as low as possible... between 40-50hZ. I could never see myself going with a second SW for output like a lot of guys do.

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My pre amp (Parasound P5) has a built in crossover. So, I have the power amp and RF 7II's cut off at 55 Hz.  I find the 7's sound more relaxed, more open, when they don't have to deal with real  deep bass.  Below 55 Hz is done by the 2 SW's.

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LaScala actually don't have lots of bass and they don't have greater bass extension than your Chorus, they are in fact about on par with a Heresy. But they are very dynamic and have lots of detail and resolution in the upper harmonics of the bass frequencies and that combined with the excellent dynamics make what little bass they do have great impact and sound very realistic. ]

   Given some time I think that if you integrate a quality horn loaded sub or two into your system that you would never go back to not using subs. As for the dynamics it is almost impossible to switch back to a less dynamic (realistic) sounding loudspeaker after a more dynamic one. I have had speakers this dynamic in my system and found it very difficult to listen after they were gone, for my set up they were just too large to live with. It was about 5 - 6 weeks after they had gone before I could go back to a set of KLF20 and it was not an easy transition.

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LaScala actually don't have lots of bass and they don't have greater bass extension than your Chorus, they are in fact about on par with a Heresy. But they are very dynamic and have lots of detail and resolution in the upper harmonics of the bass frequencies and that combined with the excellent dynamics make what little bass they do have great impact and sound very realistic. ]

   Given some time I think that if you integrate a quality horn loaded sub or two into your system that you would never go back to not using subs. As for the dynamics it is almost impossible to switch back to a less dynamic (realistic) sounding loudspeaker after a more dynamic one. I have had speakers this dynamic in my system and found it very difficult to listen after they were gone, for my set up they were just too large to live with. It was about 5 - 6 weeks after they had gone before I could go back to a set of KLF20 and it was not an easy transition.

What horn loaded sub woofer are you thinking about? I downsized to a smaller house but with an excellent long wall and hallways to help negate reflections. I am out of room for inserting a large sub into the room.

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Since a few days I have a pair of Klipschorns on demo.  Mid/Highs sound very defined, hi-res, great soundstage... impressive.  Bass is a bit of a problem, because I don't have 2 free corners to put them in.  But, when the volume is turned up mid/highs become harsh and fatiguing.  What could be the problem?

Is it a matter of speaker-amp matching?

Room acoustics?

The owner of the Khorns says they have played for only a few hours, so maybe is it matter of breaking in?

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A picture of your Khorns in-room is probably the best place to start.  Pictures are worth a lot more than words in these type of circumstances, I've found.

 

You can also read on this thread to understand a little more about that "harshness" that you mention, which is typically ceiling and floor bounce. A little acoustic treatment is usually quite effective:

 

Chris

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1 hour ago, joop said:

Since a few days I have a pair of Klipschorns on demo.  Mid/Highs sound very defined, hi-res, great soundstage... impressive.  Bass is a bit of a problem, because I don't have 2 free corners to put them in.  But, when the volume is turned up mid/highs become harsh and fatiguing.  What could be the problem?

Is it a matter of speaker-amp matching?

Room acoustics?

The owner of the Khorns says they have played for only a few hours, so maybe is it matter of breaking in?

What amp or AVR are you using? 

 

I am using a mid-level Onkyo AVR with mine and even though I know the Khorns like tube amps, when playing a Blu ray at reference level (Star Wars the Force Awakens) the bass is tremendous, shakes the room and SOUNDS like I am using a sub, which I do not with these speakers.

 

FYI my 1978 Khorns are unmolested and I would describe the sound as "smooth."  It might be the AVR or maybe they are smooth because the caps have not been replaced so there is no punch.  I don't have any other Khorns to compare them too, so I don't know.

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As you can see these are 60th anniversary edition Khorns, with the extra back panels.  Though they were made 10 years ago, the owner says they were only in use for a few hours.  I believe the man because they still smell like brand new.

This is my equipment: Mac mini, Cambridge Audio CD/DAC, Parasound P5, Parasound A21 power amp, Supra Balanced interconnects, speakers are bi-wired with Totem Tress cable.

I bought the Parasound A21 because of its high bias class A operation in its first 8 watts.

 

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14925337_1368764599814459_4163767417431605677_n.jpg

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I'd strongly recommend putting something absorptive on the floor next the each Khorn and extending toward the listener by about 1 metre, at least the width of the Khorn.  A covering of thick and sound absorptive material across the top of each loudspeaker, sticking out a little in front of the front face of the top hat will help with ceiling bounce.  If you can push the Khorns back into their corners, then place a little acoustic absorption on the sides of any object within 1-1.5 metres of the midrange horn mouths (including the side walls), things should sound much better in terms of timbre/tonal balance and imaging.  For a trial - a thick blanket, comforter, or quilt will work just fine.

 

How high is your ceiling?

 

After you do these things, you can subtract them sequentially while listening to see which ones are providing the most effectiveness.

 

Chris

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Although the anniversary editions have closed in backs, they would still be better if pushed back into the corners. Can the cabinet with all the gear (looks beautiful, too) be moved a bit further away from the speaker? I guess to the left as you are looking at the pic. You will be getting some reflections/ breakup of sound bouncing off the cabinet.

 

Those anniversary models look soooo nice.

 

Bruce

 

EDIT: Chris beat me to it

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15 minutes ago, Marvel said:

EDIT: Chris beat me to it

tumblr_mzoccxXoCd1sgfta9o1_500.gif

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The 60th Anni. Khorns are beautiful.

 

26 minutes ago, Cinema_head said:

I could be wrong but the need for room treatments seem to get more necessary the bigger you go in the horn world. 

This is a good question that Cinema_head posted.  What is the answer?

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25 minutes ago, derrickdj1 said:

The 60th Anni. Khorns are beautiful.

 

This is a good question that Cinema_head posted.  What is the answer?

That's actually a statement by Cinema Head, not a question...

 

My $0.02:

 

One explanation for why the effect may be apparent is because the increasingly good directivity that you get with larger horns and the clarity of presentation due to consistent direct-arrival SPL and suppression of early reflections from around your front three loudspeakers. 

 

The better the directivity (from ~100-2000 Hz)--the more that I find that I'm paying attention to the performance...and to the clarity that's not there with direct radiating loudspeakers and smaller horns.

 

Chris

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