Brother wants to upgrade but wonder's if it's worth it.

[AaronB123]

After all the upgrading I've done recently now my brother has the upgrade bug and wants to perhaps purchase the Klipsch RP-150M's as mains, and upgrade little by little. He was also looking at the RP-160M's but might not be able to afford them right away, so I suggested just get the 150's now and when you can, get the 160's and move the 150's to the rear.

 

Right now he has the Energy Take Classic 6 home theater in a box. He is just wondering if it would be a solid upgrade and if with these RP-160's will he be able to set them as large speakers on the AVR or small? Reason he is curious is because with the energy take classic 6's he had set them to large and ended up blowing a couple of the speakers. 

 

The reason we want to set the front stage to large is because I had purchased the RP450C but decided to go with the RC-64ii so I gave him my RP450C and he is currently running it with his Take Classic setup but I told him he should really at least upgrade his mains to something that would better match that center and be able to set the whole front stage to large. He think's because it isn't a floorstanding speaker he will blow it if he sets it to large. 

 

So I guess my question's are do you think the 150M's (for right now) would be a solid upgrade and can you set them to large? Also he really doesn't want floorstanding because of space issues. I offered to let him use my retired JBL S310's he said they are too big for his setup. 

 

 

[Grizzog]

Why would he have to set the front stage to large?  I have my RP450C set to small and 60hz crossover.  The 150s are only rated to 48, so I don't think there's much reason to set them to large; there will just be a lot of bass information that they won't play.  I doubt they'll blow though, unless the amp starts running into problems.

 

I would imagine either 150 or 160 would be better than the home theater in a box speakers.  Waiting for the money for the 160s may be a better option though, as many have said those are the sweet-spot for music.  Call around for prices, and the 160 probably won't be much more expensive.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Grizzog

[Paducah Home Theater]

Taking a small ported bookshelf whose 3 db down point is 48 hz and running them as large is just asking for trouble for no good reason. That little 5.25" woofer will be struggling to say the least, and the lower frequencies are largely just going to get lost.

[AaronB123]

I appreciate the input, I guess it's a good thing I asked. Now I'm wondering, is it alright that I have my RC-64ii set to large, or should I set that to small? When I ran the MCACC pro it set's it to large by default. 

[Grizzog]

For movies, I'd say have it set to small. Takes a large load off the amp and removes tough low frequency information from the speakers.

Music, large should be fine. No one with a 2 channel setup with an integrated amp has the choice for "large" or "small". Your speakers get everything from music. The terms came about from movies/receivers.

[Paducah Home Theater]

I appreciate the input, I guess it's a good thing I asked. Now I'm wondering, is it alright that I have my RC-64ii set to large, or should I set that to small? When I ran the MCACC pro it set's it to large by default.

I think it sounds best at 60 hz but that's just me. Setting it to large and sending 20-30 hz frequencies to it doesn't accomplish much, just usually does more harm than good. Your subs are much more efficient at reproducing those frequencies.

It bogs down your receiver / robs power from your other channels, it exposes the receiver to hard to drive impedance dips that often occur down low, and it potentially introduces distortion both in the form of clipping and frequency modulation distortion.

[derrickdj1]

With the Pioneer avr, set all the speakers to small.   Unless the system does not have a decent sub, is the only good reason to run things set to large.  The Pioneer avr sets all my speakers to Large when full MCACC is ran.  Go back and change them to small and run Auto MCACC.  There are many advantages to running the speakers set to small in  a Multi-channel system:

 

Small and Large Speakers
In the bass management setup menu, setting speakers to "Small" and "Large" does not refer to the physical size of your speakers. It refers to the low frequency extension of your speakers

 

Should I Set My Speakers to Large or Small?
People always ask this question. The answer is very simple. If you own a subwoofer that outputs good bass sound, you should set all your speakers to SMALL. In general, if you own a subwoofer, it may be wise to set all your speakers to small for several reasons:

1. When there is an overlap of bass sound from the front speakers and the subwoofer, you will get bloated and boomy bass.
2. A subwoofer can play low frequencies all the way down to 20Hz or lower. Even relatively large front speakers cannot go that low.
3. The placement of a sub in a room is the primary factor in receiving good bass sound. You cannot adjust the position of the front speakers and move them to the side or back.
4. If the subwoofer and the front speakers play the same bass frequencies, there will be a possibility of phase cancellation of certain bass frequencies.
5. Redirecting the bass to the subwoofer relieves the receiver/amplifier from having to work on reproducing the low frequencies and this greatly improves the headroom.
6. If you are using the Audyssey MultEQ calibration, you will get much better bass performance because the MultEQ subwoofer filters have 8x higher resolution than the filters for the other speakers.

People have a psycological difficulty with the word SMALL. They have spent good money on their front speakers and get insulted when the AVR sets them to SMALL. Remember that this is not a personal insult against you or your speakers. My Definitive Technology front speakers have 15" built-in subwoofers with built-in 300 watt amplifiers. In addition to those, I have six external subwoofers in my HT room. When I set the front speakers to SMALL, the quality of the sound (both music and movies) improves.

It is helpful to redefine the words SMALL and LARGE to:

LARGE = The speakers are not Bass Managed.
SMALL = The speakers are Bass Managed.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=95817

 

 

 

I have never seen as good of an argument for setting the speakers to Large and it is not because I have not tried to find it.

Edited April 18, 2016 by derrickdj1

[AaronB123]

With the Pioneer avr, set all the speakers to small.   Unless the system does not have a decent sub, is the only good reason to run things set to large.  The Pioneer avr sets all my speakers to Large when full MCACC is ran.  Go back and change them to small and run Auto MCACC.  There are many advantages to running the speakers set to small in  a Multi-channel system:

 

Small and Large Speakers

In the bass management setup menu, setting speakers to "Small" and "Large" does not refer to the physical size of your speakers. It refers to the low frequency extension of your speakers

 

Should I Set My Speakers to Large or Small?

People always ask this question. The answer is very simple. If you own a subwoofer that outputs good bass sound, you should set all your speakers to SMALL. In general, if you own a subwoofer, it may be wise to set all your speakers to small for several reasons:

1. When there is an overlap of bass sound from the front speakers and the subwoofer, you will get bloated and boomy bass.
2. A subwoofer can play low frequencies all the way down to 20Hz or lower. Even relatively large front speakers cannot go that low.
3. The placement of a sub in a room is the primary factor in receiving good bass sound. You cannot adjust the position of the front speakers and move them to the side or back.
4. If the subwoofer and the front speakers play the same bass frequencies, there will be a possibility of phase cancellation of certain bass frequencies.
5. Redirecting the bass to the subwoofer relieves the receiver/amplifier from having to work on reproducing the low frequencies and this greatly improves the headroom.
6. If you are using the Audyssey MultEQ calibration, you will get much better bass performance because the MultEQ subwoofer filters have 8x higher resolution than the filters for the other speakers.

People have a psycological difficulty with the word SMALL. They have spent good money on their front speakers and get insulted when the AVR sets them to SMALL. Remember that this is not a personal insult against you or your speakers. My Definitive Technology front speakers have 15" built-in subwoofers with built-in 300 watt amplifiers. In addition to those, I have six external subwoofers in my HT room. When I set the front speakers to SMALL, the quality of the sound (both music and movies) improves.

It is helpful to redefine the words SMALL and LARGE to:

LARGE = The speakers are not Bass Managed.

SMALL = The speakers are Bass Managed.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=95817

 

 

 

I have never seen as good of an argument for setting the speakers to Large and it is not because I have not tried to find it.

Let me just say THANK YOU for such an amazing article! Definitely explains it and I am really glad I made a thread about this because it taught me a lot! 

[Paducah Home Theater]

Setting to small does ding the ego doesn't it? Everybody wants to set to large, I mean, we're men, this is America. We like big guns, big chests, big piles of food, and big cars. Speakers should be set to large, right?

[AaronB123]

Setting to small does ding the ego doesn't it? Everybody wants to set to large, I mean, we're men, this is America. We like big guns, big chests, big piles of food, and big cars. Speakers should be set to large, right?

That's right, especially when your mains weigh around 200 a piece! 

[Paducah Home Theater]

I actually prefer the sound of things when they are set to large assuming your speakers and amps can handle it. Theoretically the lowest frequencies aren't localizable, but the problem is that the crossover isn't a brick wall. Gunfire and whatnot in full range all around the room awesome, it has a thicker tone.

[derrickdj1]

I love telling people my Reference system is the biggest satellite system that you have ever seen.

[rgdawsonco]

With the Pioneer avr, set all the speakers to small. Unless the system does not have a decent sub, is the only good reason to run things set to large. The Pioneer avr sets all my speakers to Large when full MCACC is ran. Go back and change them to small and run Auto MCACC. There are many advantages to running the speakers set to small in a Multi-channel system:

Small and Large Speakers

In the bass management setup menu, setting speakers to "Small" and "Large" does not refer to the physical size of your speakers. It refers to the low frequency extension of your speakers

Should I Set My Speakers to Large or Small?

People always ask this question. The answer is very simple. If you own a subwoofer that outputs good bass sound, you should set all your speakers to SMALL. In general, if you own a subwoofer, it may be wise to set all your speakers to small for several reasons:

• When there is an overlap of bass sound from the front speakers and the subwoofer, you will get bloated and boomy bass.
• A subwoofer can play low frequencies all the way down to 20Hz or lower. Even relatively large front speakers cannot go that low.
• The placement of a sub in a room is the primary factor in receiving good bass sound. You cannot adjust the position of the front speakers and move them to the side or back.
• If the subwoofer and the front speakers play the same bass frequencies, there will be a possibility of phase cancellation of certain bass frequencies.
• Redirecting the bass to the subwoofer relieves the receiver/amplifier from having to work on reproducing the low frequencies and this greatly improves the headroom.
• If you are using the Audyssey MultEQ calibration, you will get much better bass performance because the MultEQ subwoofer filters have 8x higher resolution than the filters for the other speakers.

People have a psycological difficulty with the word SMALL. They have spent good money on their front speakers and get insulted when the AVR sets them to SMALL. Remember that this is not a personal insult against you or your speakers. My Definitive Technology front speakers have 15" built-in subwoofers with built-in 300 watt amplifiers. In addition to those, I have six external subwoofers in my HT room. When I set the front speakers to SMALL, the quality of the sound (both music and movies) improves.

It is helpful to redefine the words SMALL and LARGE to:

LARGE = The speakers are not Bass Managed.

SMALL = The speakers are Bass Managed.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=95817

I have never seen as good of an argument for setting the speakers to Large and it is not because I have not tried to find it.

What he said!

The terms large and small have turned out to be unfortunate. I think it would have been better to terminology like derrickdj1 uses. Like Bass mgt On/Off because that's what it means.

[garyrc]

Most advisors, including Audyssey, recommend setting all main speakers and surrounds to SMALL, and letting the subwoofer do the work, for all the reasons given in the posts above.

 

I've tried both, repeatedly.  REW tests reveal absolutely no phase cancellation on LARGE with my particular set up.  That was a surprise, and probably is a rarity.  Nevertheless, for movies, I finally decided on setting all mains and surrounds to SMALL, and the sub to 80 Hz.  That is fine for most movies.  For some music (two channel), I set the sub for 40 Hz, or turn it off completely.  If I turn the sub off, I set the mains for LARGE.  The reason for my experimenting with LARGE is that my Klipschorns have a lot tighter bass than my sub, down to about 40 Hz. 

 

If anyone wants to try some of their speakers on LARGE, the subwoofer will (in most cases) receive no signal from the channels set for LARGE unless the "Bass Setting" ("subwoofer mode") in the AVR is also set to "LFE+Main" or "Double Bass," in which case the deep bass will come out of both the speakers set for LARGE and the subwoofer -- but there may be phase cancellation.  With most (or all?) AVRs, the true LFE (deep bass sound effects, rather than music, put there by filmmakers) will still come out of the sub with either setting, unless the sub is set for "No," or "Off" in the AVR.  Beware this latter setting, though, because with some AVRs the LFE can be mixed into the main front channels, and true LFE can be outrageous, and can blow out ordinary speakers.  Since true LFE tracks can go down to 10 Hz and are often very loud, it can also blow out some subwoofers.  I asked someone at Klipsch customer service if my RSW15 subwoofer had overload protection (something that would switch it off for a moment during maximum bass assault).  He said, "Yes, but some people can blow out anything."

Edited April 23, 2016 by garyrc