AaronB123 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I currently have my theater/music room in a room that has a tile floor. I have been doing a lot of reading and hearing that actually this is bad and can make the sound quality degrade drastically. Funny, I always thought rugs were bad because they absorbed all the sound. I see that I may have been wrong. I have noticed however that when I do my MCACC room callibration it always tells me one or more of my speakers has the phase reversed which from what I have read can be because of the major echo that is probably going on because the tile floor. My question is would the sound quality improve if I got a huge area rug and question number two is if I got an area rug should I get one large enough so that the speakers can go on it as well or something that can basically go in front of the speakers and cover the rest of the floor? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Since nobody else answered yet, yes theoretically it is pretty bad. High volume movies with things like soft dome tweeters that do not limit vertical dispersion seems to be the worst. I used to have a setup like that and it was awful. Most everybody will recommend a big area rug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) My question is would the sound quality improve if I got a huge area rug. Yes, most definitely. The issue is the small midrange horn mouth dimensions--mostly the short vertical dimension--which loses pattern control below about 1700 Hz, putting a lot more energy on the floor and ceiling below that frequency. ...question number two is if I got an area rug should I get one large enough so that the speakers can go on it as well or something that can basically go in front of the speakers and cover the rest of the floor? You need to cover the area that is at least 1-2 metres (3-6 feet) deep in front of the Klipsch Heritage loudspeakers and at least the width of the loudspeaker. It also doesn't hurt to have absorption on the floor out to about halfway to your listening position(s). If you've got the loudspeakers within a metre of the side walls or an equipment rack with electronics boxes, etc. in the center, then placing some absorption on these surfaces will improve your imaging quite a bit without having to pull the loudspeakers out away from the walls (thus avoiding midbass cancellations with the front and side walls). I use Auralex Sonofiber tiles, but anything that's soft and fuzzy like a heavy curtain material or tapestry will work. Having it stand off from the wall a couple of inches (5-6 centimetres) will enhance its effectiveness. You still need to toe-in your loudspeakers to aim at your listening position to improve imaging. Chris Edited April 20, 2016 by Chris A 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 A link to one of the many sites that explains the DIY aspects of acoustic curtains: http://acousticsfreq.com/sound-control-acoustic-curtain/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronB123 Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 Thank you everyone, this is exactly what I figured. Could the huge echo have to do with why my MCACC keeps saying at least one of my speakers is out of phase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Could the huge echo have to do with why my MCACC keeps saying at least one of my speakers is out of phase? Not having direct experience with MCACC, I can't answer that question. It seems unlikely but if you have a large "slap echo" in your room it could be having trouble with it. I've got Audyssey MultiEQ XT firmware on my AVP, and I've not been able to use it for anything other than delays for each channel. The EQ/dynamic EQ settings have been unsat every time that I've tried it, and I attribute that issue to the reverberance of the room itself, since I do not use heavy amounts of absorption to decrease the RT60. Here is a measurement of my room's RT60 vs. frequency that I took last year...most HT sources want you to use 0.3 as the maximum value--which is too dead for a multi-purpose room--much deader than I'd tolerate. But not having enough absorption in-room is definitely as bad as having too much: So the bottom line is: I don't know about MCACC, but I'd probably use my ears if I were in your shoes, and double check the phasing on the offending loudspeakers that MCACC is indicating to you. But automated room correction software/firmware always has more trouble than my ears to get it right. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) Aaron, it is common for MCACC to say one of the speakers is out of phase. This usually occurs with the surround type speaker or diplole speakers. If you have checked to make sure the wiring is correct, ignore it. To my knowledge it has nothing to do with the echo in the room. Rugs are good to help tame reflections. Google SC-09 MCACC manual. This should help you interpet MCACC results, and make suggestions to handle reverb and resonance. You may want to run Manual MCACC to further fine tune the system if it is available on your avr. Edited April 20, 2016 by derrickdj1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Could the huge echo have to do with why my MCACC keeps saying at least one of my speakers is out of phase? Did you double-check to see all your speaker wires are correct? Never assume. I have stories. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaman Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I have three theaters in my house with tile floors. I found area rugs keep a lot of the sound diffraction away from bouncing off the tiles. Try a couple of different options Aaron and see what makes the biggest difference for you. Tim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Gee, three theaters...do you like living at the mall? Eating all of that popcorn must get really old… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronB123 Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 Could the huge echo have to do with why my MCACC keeps saying at least one of my speakers is out of phase? Did you double-check to see all your speaker wires are correct? Never assume. I have stories. Lol Yes I did, they are all correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Manual MCACC will allow you to change the data acquisition time of the mic. For standard calibration the mic gathers data after 80 ms. Autocalibration will be more accurate and sound better in some roome is the acquisition time for the mic was shorted. I like data acquisition in the 30-50 ms range in my room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaman Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Gee, three theaters...do you like living at the mall? Eating all of that popcorn must get really old… I actually have six home theaters set up Jim, just some are less conventional like in a bedroom and den. As you can see by my sig, I have issues.... Tim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronB123 Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 Manual MCACC will allow you to change the data acquisition time of the mic. For standard calibration the mic gathers data after 80 ms. Autocalibration will be more accurate and sound better in some roome is the acquisition time for the mic was shorted. I like data acquisition in the 30-50 ms range in my room. I have to be honest I really don't believe I know enough to get into the manual mode and change things around. I really would have no idea what I was doing and might end up doing more harm than good. One thing that I do when letting the avr do it's auto calibration which is a little trick I learned on AVSforum is tape the mic to my forehead so it's really right in the sweet spot of the listening area instead of putting it on the headrest of the couch where it states you should put it in the manual. Is that a bad idea? Of course, I don't cover the mic with tape or anything like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronB123 Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 Gee, three theaters...do you like living at the mall? Eating all of that popcorn must get really old… I actually have six home theaters set up Jim, just some are less conventional like in a bedroom and den. As you can see by my sig, I have issues.... Tim Hey, if I had the money for it I'd be the same way! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaman Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Personally I have never had any room correction make positive changes. I tend to do everything manually. Last time I tried the room correction in my basement theater with a Yamaha RX-V2700 and it sounded like sh*t when I was done. I figured I would just tune things in to where I like it and so far my ears have not let me down. Tim 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 No need to tape the mic to your head. You family will start to think you are going off the deep end, lol. As far as reverb and resonance in the room, the SC 09 manual will point you toward room Tx's. Autocalibration is good but, as close to optimal speaker setup and managing room problem first will make the calibration process better 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I am doomed to poor sound I guess. I have nothing but hard floors with wool rugs. I will not have vile carpeting in my house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronB123 Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 I am doomed to poor sound I guess. I have nothing but hard floors with wool rugs. I will not have vile carpeting in my house. I've had many theater systems on hardwood floors. I never thought it sounded bad but I am no expert. I don't think my current setup sounds bad either but after what I have read, I am very curious to see what a carpet could do to improve the sound quality. After spending so much money on my La Scala's I want to have them sounding the best I possibly can but I am in no way saying it sounds bad currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 You might try to lay some blankets around where you think the best spot for the rugs might be. It would be much cheaper than buying rugs to experiment. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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