K5SS Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I would love to bring my distortion box, Rythmik FV15HP to a sub shootout. I just don't want to have to buy it a plane ticket to get it there. Many people quote specs this, stats this but have never heard any of the subs they reference. Gotta love the Internet;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 As you have already stated the room will dominate, especially at low frequency. If an individual had one room to dedicate to designing a subwoofer, then that is the room it will work in the best. You can't equalize a subwoofer for one room, and expect the same results from other rooms. Not only is there the frequency response isssues, you must pay attention to how it actually sounds. That will change depending on each room as well. We use multiple rooms to listen in and a non biased party to measure against (ground plane). I could not fathom only listening and designing for one room, there are too many things to go wrong. Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk I agree but your ground plane measurement point is still moot when every room is different. Sorry i was distracted last night on the phone, my sister is trying to drive me nuts. When i build a subwoofer for somebody i ask many questions about their room, system and goals. I realize Klipsch cannot cater to every person's needs but can see your ground plane testing method working in different type rooms to determine your end product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) Frequency response does not change with volume nor does room gain. Cabin gain very much changes with area. He won't be seeing cabin gain until starting around 25 hz. The longer the longest room dimension is, the lower the frequency in which cabin gain starts. In-room frequency response very much changes at the listening position with volume. Regardless of cabin gain, play with a mode calculator or REW's room simulator if you don't believe this. It could be argued that this is two different subjects but we're mainly concerned with cabin gain here, which does change based on the size of the room, and this room is nowhere near small enough to have strong single digit response from one sealed 15. What you see is what you get. You do realize that other guys who were seemingly more in the know (like Bossobass himself) in that thread was telling him to not trust those numbers and to basically throw away everything below 10 hz right? I'm not sure why you're defending this graph and acting like you're going to get strong low single digit response with such a setup in a typical room. Also keep in mind that regardless of what's going on below 10 hz, that graph isn't as smooth as it looks, that's a 35 db swing, just nowhere near being flat. It's not scaled properly. Edited May 3, 2016 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) You do realize that other guys who were seemingly more in the know (like Bossobass himself) in that thread was telling him to not trust those numbers and to basically throw away everything below 10 hz right? I'm not sure why you're defending this graph and acting like you're going to get strong low single digit response with such a setup in a typical room. Also keep in mind that regardless of what's going on below 10 hz, that graph isn't as smooth as it looks, that's a 35 db swing, just nowhere near being flat. It's not scaled properly. I have a new respect for you. Not only did you take the time to actually read that thread, you made your point in a very adult manner. You are utterly right about the above statements. When I went back and looked at the thread I saw a graph that was designed to spin the truth. The scale is negative 60db to +150db, which is 210 db total, when all that was truly needed was 70db to 110db, or 40 db total. If I am graphing efficiency, those are the numbers I use. Had the OP of that thread done that, the graph would have looked much different. That is why I decided to create this document I call "The Unspun FR Chart": my scientific equipment: Edited May 3, 2016 by mustang guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 That's quite a difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I've got too much time on my hands 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I posted a graph because Jay called bullshit on any horn subwoofer having any response below 35 Hz and then to 30 Hz and MLO about 20 Hz response. Never said anything about single digit extension but there is some there though it probably drops off more than what is shown below 10 Hz in the charts. As you can see in the pictures this is basically an untreated room using no EQ and the chart reflects it. If you want to argue something you should be arguing about needing room treatments to smooth out the chart and not blaming the subwoofer or the room itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) I posted a graph because Jay called bullshit on any horn subwoofer having any response below 35 Hz and then to 30 Hz and MLO about 20 Hz response. I'm mostly curious about Bill's response on post 92. That shows something like a 25-30 db/octave drop below 26 hz. That's huge and is about on par with most other response graphs I've seen with 15" horns. Cabin gain shouldn't be enough to level that out. In this graph, the bottom line is the response of the sub without the horn, just in the sealed chamber. By the time you get to 16 hz, you've only got a 5 maybe 6 db gain over a single 15 in a sealed box. At that point you have the equivalent or less output than two sealed 15's. Just have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that this is going to be strong, especially when 4,000 cubic foot rooms are being used as an example. Edited May 3, 2016 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Cabin gain is room dependent, it will vary for numerous reasons and size is just one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fracchia23 Posted May 14, 2016 Author Share Posted May 14, 2016 i opened a nice post :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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