Klipsch TSCM EBay

[1HOHDude]

Well the drywall is in and taped.    Now working  on electric outlets, etc.    Then paint and floors.    I have pics so perhaps someone could clue me how to post.    I have verified that all 14 speakers are working and the cross over appears to be generally working as intended.

 

I am  intrested in TSCM  crossover improvements and possible k78 speaker diapham replacement with titatium.    Like to find someone else who has made it happen successfully before I experiment.

 

More later when I get it working.

[1HOHDude]

Well the theater is nearly finished and the 5.1 sound system is in.   The TSCMs sound remarkably good considering they are not a perfect match to each other and the components are so old.    I am going to rebuild the crossovers with better caps.     The tweeters are K-79.     Does anyone know the difference between a k-78 and a k-79?     I am just about to go inside to find out.  

 

[1HOHDude]

Theater nearly finished. Sound system with 14 speakers and Marantz sound system.    Sounds great and i hve not been  into the TSCM speakers yet.    Just got my screen.    85 TV in process.    Amp and other eqpt. is to the left where it can be reached w/out interfering with the pic.   The center speaker consists of two R-82 towers crossed.      Theater seating next along with the TV.    Projector is up and running just waiting for the screen.

[Coytee]

Regarding your center... (no disrespect intended)

 

I'm guessing that even with two of them, Those RF's aren't the best choice.

 

I get that you have some space issues.

 

Years ago, someone took a Khorn, pulled it away from the corner.  Put it on the FLOOR (using the floor and wall as a 'corner') then, put the tophat above the sideways laying Khorn bottom.

 

My recollection is he said it worked very good.

 

What I would have tried (and perhaps you did) is to use a LaScala or Belle in the center and even use it as a stand if need be for the tv.

 

Beyond that nit-pick, it looks nice!!!

[Woofers and Tweeters]

2 hours ago, Coytee said:

Regarding your center... (no disrespect intended)

 

I'm guessing that even with two of them, Those RF's aren't the best choice.

 

I get that you have some space issues.

 

Years ago, someone took a Khorn, pulled it away from the corner.  Put it on the FLOOR (using the floor and wall as a 'corner') then, put the tophat above the sideways laying Khorn bottom.

 

My recollection is he said it worked very good.

 

What I would have tried (and perhaps you did) is to use a LaScala or Belle in the center and even use it as a stand if need be for the tv.

 

Beyond that nit-pick, it looks nice!!!

Sounds like that would have worked great. 

 

I wish that I had time to rotate the MWM 90 degrees, put the horns on top and make a grill(s) to cover it all.

[Woofers and Tweeters]

2 hours ago, 1HOHDude said:

Theater nearly finished. Sound system with 14 speakers and Marantz sound system.    Sounds great and i hve not been  into the TSCM speakers yet.    Just got my screen.    85 TV in process.    Amp and other eqpt. is to the left where it can be reached w/out interfering with the pic.   The center speaker consists of two R-82 towers crossed.      Theater seating next along with the TV.    Projector is up and running just waiting for the screen.

Looks great

[1HOHDude]

I have just completed electronic setup with the maranz and then done listening tests for balance and stereo effect.   Both came out very well.    Turns out the TSCMs seem to have a mid and high emphasis which I have been told that may be associated with the through the screen process.    The bass binn output seems lower than expected.    The TSCMs are louder per given power level than the rest of the klipsch.    I had to increase the gain on the center for example by 6 db and reduce the TSCM gain by 5 db to bring the center level up to  where the center was just a little soft. [ personal preference]     Similar differences exist with the surround, high and rear speakers.   

 

Any tech suggestions on how to reduce the mid and tweeter sections to match up with the bass?  

[CECAA850]

The TSCM's are more efficient than the rest of your speakers and require less wattage per dB than the rest of your speakers.  Calibration is the only way to fix that which you've done.  To change the bass bin output in relationship to the top hats would probably be easiest accomplished with separate gain adjustable amplifiers I would think.  Others may chime in with better ideas.  Does your receiver have pre-outs?

[Coytee]

Mr. Carl nailed it.  The TSCM's simply put out more sound per unit of input.

 

I had that issue long ago.  I had three Academy's (at the suggestion of the dealer) to go with my two LaScalas.

 

It was an epic fail.  They simply didn't have the horsepower to keep up with the output of the LaScala.  Like you, I had them maxed and dialed back the LaScalas.  Never got it working to any satisfaction. 

 

If you could wiggle your nose and create a perfect world....  you'd either up the horsepower of your center (I'm thinking LaScala or Belle) and surrounds (I have no idea) and/or, you could reduce the TSCM's for some lessor monsters (a choice that in my view, clearly sucks)

 

There may be some way to put a band-aid on it such that you can find it acceptable and live with it.

 

My opinion is it will always be a compromised system and in a sense, you've painted yourself into a corner given the mix of parts.

 

(again, no disrespect intended, just trying to be blunt)

 

I don't know your measurements....but I personally would be hunting down some LaScalas, pull out my Sawzall and open that center space up.  I would presume the rears would be less of an issue than the front.

[Speakerfritz]

the way the waves work, those things have to be 26ft apart and you sitting 26ft away from them......they have plenty of bass and detail...but the room will never exploit the speaker system abilities.

 

 

[1HOHDude]

 Actually I am working in a finite space.    I have used an absorptive surface on top of the drywall and so called absorptive paint.   This seems to work quite well to limit the reflections.   I did borrow a pair of Cornwalls to try and get a reference.    To my ears the TSCMs are a significant improvement.    I also set up the RF 82s and thought they were so close the Cornwalls I could not tell the difference.      However it is not my intention to have a world class system; in fact my ears are not world class quality.     Also the volume of sound I have is far in excess of the size of my theater.   Therefore I will be operating them as some small percent of their capacity.     But it is probably a fact the capabilities of my system will exceed my ears.

 

I have available a dismantled TUBA 24 for use as a subwoofer but with the 82s going down to 32 cps and the TSCMs somewhere in the same area I doubt I will assemble it but I will have to try out the system on an extended frequency blue ray first.   I really doubt that there is all that much sub 30 cycle content available.

 

Anyway I appreciate the comments.   I have just spent some time with the schematic for the crossover networks and they are minimalist to say the least.    I do intend to get the caps replaced for sure since these are certainly quite old.  I would do something exotic but ALK did not think the "universal" was appropriate and has nothing custom. 

 

Feel free to be blunt; I will plagiarize a good idea from anyone.

[1HOHDude]

I have just completed electronic setup with the maranz and then done listening tests for balance and stereo effect.   Both came out very well.    Turns out the TSCMs seem to have a mid and high emphasis which I have been told that may be associated with the through the screen process.    The bass binn output seems lower than expected.    The TSCMs are louder per given power level than the rest of the klipsch.    I had to increase the gain on the center for example by 6 db and reduce the TSCM gain by 5 db to bring the center lev

[1HOHDude]

My amp does have low level outputs which can be used to bi-amp and this sounds like a possible solution to the level matching.

[1HOHDude]

One last comment.   I made a simplistic mod to the TSCMs that adjusted the base/treble quite well.   [secret trick learned from a forum person]  

 

  I have run the Audyssey electronic balance program and then made really minor mods to the suggested settings.    The result is far better than my fondest expectations.   The stereo effect is as good as I have ever heard anywhere and the wall of sound effect good.     I have tried a couple of movies and the response of guests has been highly favorable.    I have a video clip of space ships coming from the right rear and going away center screen.   The stereo effect is no less than spectacular.     

 

Considering my room dimensions all is well.    The TSCM sound is so much better than the borrowed Cornwalls which I always coveted.    I think my investment in them has been rewarded.

 

In any event the forum has proven its worth by getting me a simple solution to the balance problem with the TSCMs even though separate adjustable amps may be the long term solution.   Thanks all.

 

[DMH]

Very nicely done! I'd bet that your guests are very impressed with your set-up!

 

You might want to think of swapping your center channel for a Belle. The Belle is less than 19' deep so it would fit better in the confined space that you have. Sound quality is very nice without any modifications to the speaker. Further down the road you could consider using an active crossover. A used DX38 can easily be purchased and the active settings have all been figured out for you (see link below). The end result is a center channel that will perfectly match your TSCM's and provide wonderful SQ for both music and dialogue.

 

 

[1HOHDude]

Thanks for the comment.    The theater is still a work in process but we did get the projector working from a blue ray disc.    I still  need to update the crossovers and get my new 85 inch TV.     A new top of the line blue ray is coming along with my 4 recliner primary seating.   Getting made a bar to go behind the recliners for 4 stools.    Still chasing a game table and pool table.    A lot of work but hope to have the theater basically completed by Thanksgiving.     

[Woofers and Tweeters]

On 9/22/2016 at 7:23 PM, RetiredUSA said:

the way the waves work, those things have to be 26ft apart and you sitting 26ft away from them......they have plenty of bass and detail...but the room will never exploit the speaker system abilities.

 

 

have to run what you brung. 

[Woofers and Tweeters]

On 10/11/2016 at 9:32 AM, DavidH said:

Very nicely done! I'd bet that your guests are very impressed with your set-up!

 

You might want to think of swapping your center channel for a Belle. The Belle is less than 19' deep so it would fit better in the confined space that you have. Sound quality is very nice without any modifications to the speaker. Further down the road you could consider using an active crossover. A used DX38 can easily be purchased and the active settings have all been figured out for you (see link below). The end result is a center channel that will perfectly match your TSCM's and provide wonderful SQ for both music and dialogue.

 

 

I had the Belle as a center for the MCM1900 and the pair did great as a center for movies and such. Moved the Belle to use elsewhere and replaced them with KP362, which are no slouch. There is no need to AB the MCM to whatever, but when adding the B, there is either an addition or not. When on, the Belle brought the movie sound to the TV and the KP362 makes no difference. Turn them on or off, there is no difference in volume or quality. 

 

+1 for the Belle

[1HOHDude]

Looking for a top hat for a TSCM bin or Jubilee to make like a center.   Anyone have a line on a single please let me know.   I have been watching E-Bay and Craigslist and a couple of other sites and not seen anything.   

 

I also got into them and find my crossover is not like the one commonly published here.   Also the tweeters are a K 78 and the forum seems to have never heard of them.  Physically they look remarkably like a K77. [square magnet version]    Would really like to know about replacements?    Will the K77 replacements fit?     Any one want a schematic for the crossover let me know.  

[1HOHDude]

For an update.     Chased and chased for a TSCM top so made my own two way Center speaker.    Two Klipschorn horns with DE 220 drivers with two 10" KLF -20 replacement woofers.  Sealed acoustic suspension box with a crudely measured frequency base down about 5 db at 40 cps.     Modified a 24 db crossover which along with some creative wiring got a good balance between the 95 db woofers and the higher efficiency horns.  Still have to cover with acoustic cloth.     Now my center is a full match for the TSCMs

 

Net result has been fabulous.    Coupled with the new acoustic tiles and Bass traps the theater has fabulous presence, surround effect, and general great sound.   The consensus of users is that no movie theater can match my sound.

 

Next:    Re assemble a 24 inch TUBA HT  for a subwoofer.