ragga Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Hello all! This is my first post here after lurking for some time. I have already found so much great information and I hope to be a contributing member of the community in time. I hope this is the correct place to post this I am looking to start a DIY project for a 2 way system to be used primarily for modern dance music. I am on the fence about going for the Jubilee vs. the MWM. Either way, I'm pretty much sold on having the 402 on top. What is a ballpark figure for total cost to build either the Jub or MWM system? What have others spent on their 2 way builds? I imagine there will be quite a bit of variance based on passive vs active, compression driver used, etc. but it would be helpful to get a sense of the overall range associated with the project. I will likely be on the cheaper side of the spectrum. I plan to go active (haven't looked into specific units yet) and maybe a JBL compression driver with a Be diaphragm swapped in. Thanks in advance for any input/advice you all can offer! It is much appreciated 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arash Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 welcome to the forum you can probably consider the Jamboree. it's pretty easy to build. I've built it before link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Welcome to the forum! We love DIY builds here and there are some that are obsessed with building these kinds of speakers. Depending on your room you can go with the Quarter Pie Bass horn as well, its similar to the LaScala bass horn in sound but smoother based on those who have built it. Here is a thread on the build: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/148054-quarter-pie-bass-horn-measured-fr-how2build-and-hornresp/ Since you are using these for electronic music, you will most likely need a sub. These horn loaded subs match very well with horn speakers and would look awesome as a set: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/134131-cinema-f-20-build-thread/ Anyway, I hope this is some good info to get you started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Tell us about your listening space that they will go into: dimensions, etc., amount of other stuff in the room nearby, and furnishings on the floor and walls. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragga Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 The main space is basement level about 30'x50'. The walls and ceilings are drywall. There are a couple egress windows and 8.5' ceilings. It is pretty much a blank canvas at this point with no treatment or items in the space of any kind. I am really hoping to keep it 2-way. I was under the impression that the MWM was solid to 40 hz and the Jubilee dug a little lower than that? Is this not the case? The jamboree is interesting; I may need to consider that, or possibly adding some sort of nose, or mouth extension, for the Jub or MWM to get the bottom end I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Ragga, welcome to the forum. I think ease of build and size the MWMs might fit the bill. However, Chris is the man who knows his stuff and will give the best recommendation for the room you have. Keep us posted what ever you decided. Where might you be located? As there might be a pair around for you to demo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 My intent in only to understand a bit more, nothing more. MWM pros: easy to build, nice open effortless sound, extremely high efficiency, lower profile for low-ceiling rooms MWM cons: very large horizontally, a little less LF extension, significantly less HF extension Jubilee bass bin pros: very good LF and HF extension, smaller size Jubilee bass bin cons: much more difficult to build, higher profile (important for lower-ceiling rooms), really needs corners of room I've not dealt with the Jamboree bass bins before, but they are very similar to Jubilee bass bins. They have less LF extension than the Jubilees (like the MWMs), and I'm not sure about their HF extension. The room that you describe could apparently handle any of the three types of bass bins. I'd recommend good horn-loaded sub(s) for any of the three--but that's my preference in sound. I also recommend a good active crossover and bi-amping, using REW or TrueRTA, etc. and a calibration microphone to dial everything in. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) Since I haven't built any of these bins, I don't know the exact costs. You can find the cut lists on this forum, and perhaps some of the people that have built them will chime in with their costs, including the woofers and hardware. My thinking is that ~US$200-$350 per bass bin is a ballpark estimate. The TH-SPUD clones cost me about $250 per unit (including 8" woofers and Nutrik connectors), and they used the more expensive Russian "Baltic Birch" plywood sheets. Chris Edited May 21, 2016 by Chris A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Ragga, you have asked some interesting questions, but they don't have simple answers. Where are you located and have you been able to listen to either the Jubilees or the MWMs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragga Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 Thanks to everyone for the warm welcomes and for the information! I am in south east South Dakota, near Sioux City, Iowa. I would love to hear some of these rigs in action, but I have not noticed any posts from members in the area. It would be nice to demo a Jubilee/Jamboree set up to see how they sound with dance music and also to hear how the MWM (with no sub) does with material that includes significant amounts of information in the 35-40 hz range. I think hearing would make the decision easy, but that seems unlikely given my geography. I am really only considering a fully horn-loaded 2 way system at this point. The efficiency and lower power requirements, as well as the more complex build are appealing. That being said, the added cost and complexity of a 3 way build are unappealing. I agree that I have good flexibility with the setup. My wife and I are closing on a new house this summer and I get to have a dedicated space to work with. The size of the MWM is not a problem and I expect it would have more of a classic "club sound" for dance music. The LF extension is my main concern there, which leads me to wonder if anyone has thought about Levan-type extensions for the MWM or some other tweak for a longer path. I have read repeatedly that the MWM HF extension is sufficient for pairing with the k402 and something like a TAD driver (~500 hz), even being a more limited HF than the Jubilee. If that is not the case, than that would be a huge concern. My main concern with the Jubilee comes from the descriptions, mostly by MWM fans, of its sound as slower and possibly lacking some of the punch for dance music Chris, thanks for your recommendations on REW or TrueRTA. I have not given much thought to the amps, crossovers, etc yet and this is where most of the range in cost will come from. It seems other members have had good luck with more plug and play with known settings for known equipment. I guess I plan to use that as a starting point? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragga Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 Preston Tom, I really like the treatment you gave you stacks with the Asian-style screens. WAF has not been much of a factor yet, but who knows when she sees what I'm actually putting in there lol WAF aside, it is an elegant presentation that I really like. Did you use acoustically transparent material? or does your screen approximate a movie screen to use closer to cinema settings in the EQ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragga Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) (lousy work internet... double post) Edited May 20, 2016 by ragga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniper Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Ragga I have some clone bins and k402's, I am about 5hrs away in MN .If you are ever up this way, you are welcome to hear them.... All I can say is they are special.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 It seems other members have had good luck with more plug and play with known settings for known equipment. I guess I plan to use that as a starting point? Actually, I find that starting from scratch when doing active EQ, crossovers, and delays is more productive for me when dialing-in configurations that haven't been put into the anechoic chamber in Hope. You stand back and look at the overall response of the K-402 or the bass bin, then you try out a shelving filter or a really big PEQ to correct for the curvature of the basic shape, then once you get that portion down, then you start adding the finer-grain PEQ and shelf filters, until you get the shape of the response curve reasonably flat. I've found that works the best and usually uses he least number of filters, rather than trying to edit the settings that come from some other configuration. Since it's easy to dump what you've done and start over again. The great part is that you can listen to what you've done and tweak the settings, or save the settings and try a completely different set of filters using a completely different approach. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 It seems other members have had good luck with more plug and play with known settings for known equipment. I guess I plan to use that as a starting point? Actually, I find that starting from scratch when doing active EQ, crossovers, and delays is more productive for me when dialing-in configurations that haven't been put into the anechoic chamber in Hope. You stand back and look at the overall response of the K-402 or the bass bin, then you try out a shelving filter or a really big PEQ to correct for the curvature of the basic shape, then once you get that portion down, then you start adding the finer-grain PEQ and shelf filters, until you get the shape of the response curve reasonably flat. I've found that works the best and usually uses he least number of filters, rather than trying to edit the settings that come from some other configuration. Since it's easy to dump what you've done and start over again. The great part is that you can listen to what you've done and tweak the settings, or save the settings and try a completely different set of filters using a completely different approach. Chris I agree 100 percent with this. I tried using some factory settings. It ended up getting me further out that there, than what was needed.Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Ragga you have pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragga Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 I look forward to being at that point in the process when its time to do Eq. Someone once recommended to me a program called Dirac to take measurements and set filters, etc. Anyone have experience with that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Preston Tom, I really like the treatment you gave you stacks with the Asian-style screens. WAF has not been much of a factor yet, but who knows when she sees what I'm actually putting in there lol WAF aside, it is an elegant presentation that I really like. Did you use acoustically transparent material? or does your screen approximate a movie screen to use closer to cinema settings in the EQ? Thanks for your nice comment. Of course, I am in complete agreement. The material was fairly light and an open weave, so it was only down about a dB by 8kHz (nothing to worry about). The Jamboree was designed by a member of this forum (who has been absent for a few years at least). I am guessing not many of these were ever made and I have not seen a serious measurements on them (they may exist, I simply do not know of any). So that is a bit of a mystery speaker. However, the MWM and Jubilees are in theaters etc and may be near your locale, but they would probably not be in a two-way configuration. Another contender for measurement is a free program called "Holmimpulse". It is a favorite over at the DIYaudio forum. Good luck and keep us posted, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragga Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 Thanks for the continued encouragement and information! I'd like to hear more from ppl with these 2 way systems - about amps, eq and crossover options people have used and what their ballpark costs were for the electronic side of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Thanks for the continued encouragement and information! I'd like to hear more from ppl with these 2 way systems - about amps, eq and crossover options people have used and what their ballpark costs were for the electronic side of things. If you choose to use an active DSP crossover (which I encourage), I have some used ones for sale. If you go that way, then PM me when you are ready. -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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