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RF-7II vs Heresy III


Grizzog

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In actuality, I do have a set of 12" slated stands.  Using them and keeping them close to the wall, it gives the best of the Heresy with better imaging and doesn't feel like there is a need for a sub.  

 

As HDBRbuilder says, you have the listeners and you have the listener / interrogator that wants their imaging too.  Take your choice and choose you weapon appropriately.

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I'm in the surprised camp. I'm not surprised that the RF7 won, but I would have thought that the 3 way of the H3 would have had better detail in the highs.... That was until I AB the H2 to KG5.5. I was sure that the KG would have more / better bass, and that the Heresy would have won on detail - nope. The KG, IMHO, had better / more natural / airy freedom of sound and plenty of crispness. 

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It is not so difficult to try to rise the Heresies. Give it a try.

 

I had my Infinities QB (which are similar to Heresies  dimension wise) initially at 12 inches above the floor. They are supposed to be placed like that but I did not like how they sound. Then I made speaker stands in a way that hi frequency driver is at my ear level when I listen to music. Much better in terms of clarity and stereo separation. If I would do it again then I would make the stands a few inches lower but I guess it has to do with vertical dispersion of sound from ribbon tweeter as well as with the room acoustics.

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6 hours ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

I'm in the surprised camp. I'm not surprised that the RF7 won, but I would have thought that the 3 way of the H3 would have had better detail in the highs.... That was until I AB the H2 to KG5.5. I was sure that the KG would have more / better bass, and that the Heresy would have won on detail - nope. The KG, IMHO, had better / more natural / airy freedom of sound and plenty of crispness. 

The Heresy will not provide the up front sound like the RF7 which will make the RF7 stand out due to the perspective it presents when on the floor.  The Heresy opens up when lifted off the floor.

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29 minutes ago, pzannucci said:
7 hours ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

I'm in the surprised camp. I'm not surprised that the RF7 won, but I would have thought that the 3 way of the H3 would have had better detail in the highs.... That was until I AB the H2 to KG5.5. I was sure that the KG would have more / better bass, and that the Heresy would have won on detail - nope. The KG, IMHO, had better / more natural / airy freedom of sound and plenty of crispness. 

The Heresy will not provide the up front sound like the RF7 which will make the RF7 stand out due to the perspective it presents when on the floor.  The Heresy opens up when lifted off the floor.

It can't be disputed that raising them up changes how they sound, I am not saying that they sound bad. I thought that Heresy paired very nicely on top of the Cornwall. I'll add that I don't like the 'forward' sound of some speakers, I like them to be balanced and not ear bleeding. The one thing that, IMHO, holds true: Unless the speakers are AB at the same time; using the same power source; staggering the speakers so that there isn't a separation advantage (Ex: A1,B1 space A2,B2), and trying that in different rooms and with multiple power sources, then one can say that without a doubt, this one won. Most of the time that's really not needed, only AB at the same time. 

 

A Ripley's moment: A friend was having an outside wedding a couple of weeks ago and asked me to provide the tunes. I took RB35 with a sub for the wedding area and KP362 for the dance area. Having them both there and outside, I was able to AB the two pair. Much to my surprise, the RB had more detail that was very noticeable with their crisper highs. I am concluding that it might have to do with older Xovers in the 362, but more so believe it is the Ti tweeters in the RB.

 

To save me from reading this whole thread, again, have you AB the Heresy against the RF7? Are your Heresy upgraded? I want to upgrade mine. 

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21 hours ago, derrickdj1 said:

This is just an unusual thread, it is like comparing an Escalade to a smaller cadillac.  Just not much to compare since the two products were design for a different target audience.  I can see comparing similar things directed at the same target group. 

 

I'm not sure I agree with this logic. I would assume there are a large number of people whom simply can't afford or don't have room for multiple systems and have to compromise by having their stereo play music and perform home theater duty, I know I currently fall into this crowd. Since both of these are current model offerings and fairly close in price, Heresy's being cheaper which allows for the purchase of a sub, I think it would be reasonable for someone in the market to consider these two as viable options and this thread could be the deciding factor for someone, or at least give them something to chew on while considering which way to go..  

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15 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

 

I'm not sure I agree with this logic. I would assume there are a large number of people whom simply can't afford or don't have room for multiple systems and have to compromise by having their stereo play music and perform home theater duty, I know I currently fall into this crowd. Since both of these are current model offerings and fairly close in price, Heresy's being cheaper which allows for the purchase of a sub, I think it would be reasonable for someone in the market to consider these two as viable options and this thread could be the deciding factor for someone, or at least give them something to chew on while considering which way to go..  

I totally agree.  Heresy's mated with, in particular, two subs can be very good.  You will then have possibly more bass power than RF7 IIs and the midrange presentation may be more to your liking than a 2 way speaker that brings the 10" woofers up as high as they do.  Definitely a matter of taste.

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2 hours ago, pzannucci said:

I totally agree.  Heresy's mated with, in particular, two subs can be very good.  You will then have possibly more bass power than RF7 IIs and the midrange presentation may be more to your liking than a 2 way speaker that brings the 10" woofers up as high as they do.  Definitely a matter of taste.

In total agreement.

 

3 hours ago, jjptkd said:

Since both of these are current model offerings and fairly close in price, Heresy's being cheaper which allows for the purchase of a sub, I think it would be reasonable for someone in the market to consider these two as viable options and this thread could be the deciding factor for someone, or at least give them something to chew on while considering which way to go..  

Excellent point!

 

I was thinking along the lines that this is a Heritage vs Reference, Size and style are way different.  I had a pair of  Forte speaker and would have loved to be able to keep them for a 2  Ch system.  They would have been great for HT but, it was easier to match a Reference system at the time.

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I’d appreciate it if someone would please explain the rationale behind short speakers that must be placed on risers or stands.  Why doesn’t the manufacturer make the speaker taller, which would put the HF driver at proper height, and increase cabinet volume (and presumably bass) - without consuming any more floor space? 

 

At the risk of heresy, I have the same question about the Forte.  (Pun intended.)

 

 

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The Heriitage line does not change much in honor or PWK and should remain true to the man that developed them.  Remember the eara when these speakers were designed.  There was not big amps, HT and the likes.  All of the Heritage line was mostly for 2 ch listening with some options for a center speakers.  These speakers have stood the test of time and have numerous fans.  Klipsch has made other speakers for those looking for something different.

 

The Heritage speakers remain some of the best that money can buy and are true audiophile quality.  There are plenty of flavors in the Klipsch line-up to choose from to fit the desires and taste of the listener.  We often debate on which speaker is better for a particular application knowing that they all share in the legacy of PKW.

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7 hours ago, robert_kc said:

I’d appreciate it if someone would please explain the rationale behind short speakers that must be placed on risers or stands.  Why doesn’t the manufacturer make the speaker taller, which would put the HF driver at proper height, and increase cabinet volume (and presumably bass) - without consuming any more floor space? 

 

At the risk of heresy, I have the same question about the Forte.  (Pun intended.)

 

 

To put it simply, when did you see a tower speaker designed in the 1950s?  There are different sets of criteria used today.  

 

Also, to elaborate on some other criteria used back then and when designing the speakers were that next to no music at the time had very low bass (now we have a lot of electronically generated sound) thus limited bass extension.  Another was keeping the woofer closer to the floor to allow for better bass loading.  Another reason use in corners is suggested.  We know corners aren't exactly the best place to put your speakers for optimal imaging.

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Thanks for your responses regarding speaker height.

 

In most of my rooms, I have limited floor space, so a speaker’s footprint is important.  Because I want the largest cabinet volume for a given footprint, and I want the HF driver at the optimum position, tower speakers are indicated for me.  (I can’t accommodate Klipschorn or La Scala in most rooms due to their footprint.)  Based on the limited information currently available about the RF-7III, they don’t appear to include any significant upgrades compared with the RF-7II.  Because I like the RF-7II, and they’re currently available deeply discounted, I just bought 2 more RF-7II (cherry) to “upgrade” the 2.1 system in my basement to surround sound.  This system will be used primarily with surround-sound (SACD and Blu-ray) classical music and opera, and will be powered by vintage tube amps.  I now have RF-7II for left, center, and right.  Based on several circumstances I won’t bore you with, I’ve combined the L&R rear line-level outputs from my Oppo UDP-205 player into a single channel, and I’ve repurposed an existing single RF-7 for a rear speaker.  And I’ve added an SVS SB-16Ultra subwoofer (left side) to my existing Klipsch R-115SW (right side).

 

I was hoping that Klipsch would have introduced a new speaker they might call an “RF-9” – i.e., a version of the RF-7 that is equipped with upgraded drivers and enhanced refinement and performance, and is possibly larger.   

 

And/or I would have liked to see a large 3 way tower – that could be called an “RF-9”, or marketed as a new member of the heritage family (perhaps slotted above the Chorus?).

 

I have Palladium P-37F towers in my TV room.  IMO, they are a different product – i.e., a luxury item with premium cabinet design (i.e., boat-tail shape) and premium veneers.  Perhaps another way of describing what I’d like to see is a new product about the size of the Palladium P-39F (i.e., the largest Palladium tower), with top-of-the-line components, and delivering TOTL performance, but without the boat-tail shape (thereby lowering cost and increasing cabinet volume).  The consumer could be offered an option of “regular grade” wood veneer, or various premium grades of veneer, thereby covering more than one market segment.

 

Bottom line, I was hoping that Klipsch would introduce a new TOTL tower speaker.

 

I respect the fact that people have different needs, different tastes, and different budgets.  With that said, short speakers that must be placed on stands seem to me to represent a lost opportunity - i.e., given the same amount of floor space being consumed, a taller speaker could be built, which presumably would improve performance.  I think it’s great that many people like Heresy, and many are excited about the Forte III, but my question is why don’t they build a variant that’s approximately 50 inches tall?

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With 3 RF 7 II 's across the front stage, paired with some nice gear, this should be an awesome system.  I'm am of the opinion that a 3 way speaker is not inherently better than a two way.  The original Heritage speakers were 3 way in part due to the use of the various horns.  Those horns had certain cutoff frequencies and a 3 way design was the best way at the time to cover the 20 Hz to 20 kHz range.  The new RF 7 III will employ the new horn and have a tractix port but, is it better than the current model may depend on your taste.

 

I can't see Klipsch offering anything larger than the RF 7 series.  The demand for that large a speaker will be small.  Over the last 20 years or so, the systems have become smaller since subwoofers are a main stay in most systems.  Even for HT, an all tower system is no longer consider optimal.

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18 hours ago, derrickdj1 said:

I can't see Klipsch offering anything larger than the RF 7 series.  The demand for that large a speaker will be small.  Over the last 20 years or so, the systems have become smaller since subwoofers are a main stay in most systems.  Even for HT, an all tower system is no longer consider optimal.

Towers give up optimal positioning, unless you have a room that can accommodate them, for bass extension.  That is why so many people have turned to speakers like RP-160Ms with a subwoofer or two.  They can solve the positioning problem by putting the smaller speakers on stands and hiding the sub since the low bass is not as directional.  Stupidly I have a set of RB5s on my subs with a mini-stand like a tower.  Since that is all the room I have, the ability to adjust the bass makes a lot of difference in the presentation along with putting the RB5 (previously RP160Ms) at an optimal height.

 

left.jpg

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