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Heresy II (best method for deeper bass?)


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Hello Everyone.

It seems that (most) people love the heresy.

But I've noticed that (most) people also

complain about the heresy not having

enough low frequency output on their own,

and usually recommend the use of a subwoofer.

If adding a sub is not an option,

and squeezing some deeper bass

from a heresy was the goal...

what are some options without altering the original heresy cabinet?

Or, to put it another way...

I want more bass from my heresy II

without adding a sub, or changing original size of the cabinet.

I think that the heresy is one of the most

attractive looking speakers ever produced.

It's not too big,

It has a very "retro" look,

and to me... It just symbolizes klipsch heritage

and class.

But I want it to have more bass!

I know I can get Quartets, Fortes, Etc...

But I want the classic heresy look.

So, if you wanna keep your heresys looking

"Stock", but need lower tones from it...

Whatta ya do?

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Are there "drop-in" woofer replacements that would achieve the desired effect?

I'm planning on going all BEC on my heresys,

Tweets, mids, crossovers...

I know that crites offers a woofer,

Does it allow the heresy to dig deeper?

Or would cutting a port into the rear of the cabinet help?

If so, is there a "proper" port hole size?

...Location of port?... Is porting a bad move?

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For more extended low frequencies without a subwoofer or alterations, the Heresys need to be in a small enough room to take advantage of boundary gain.  My Heresys are in a 13L x 13W x 10H room and very near the corners and I know boundary gain is coming in to play for extended bass response.  Same for my Heresy II's except the boundary gain is being utilized in a different way.  I have them sitting on the corners of my dresser in a narrower sitting room part of my bedroom.  That section of the room has theoretically become sort of a bass horn.

 

 

Bill

post-24680-0-09560000-1464402269_thumb.j

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Yeah, that makes sense.

The room that I'm putting the heresy II's in

Is 10x13.

So, I know that'll help some.

But the reason I was asking,

is because I am planning on

Gradually doing some mods

on these H2's, and it just seemed appropriate

To look into making a little lower frequencies

happen (along with the mids & tweets being upgraded).

And also because the most popular

issue people point out on any "stock"

Heresy, is the lack of bass.

I should have the H2's home

Sometime this weekend.

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Can you build new cabinets? The Tangent 400 is a larger ported cabinet, with the same guts, much better low end. Pretty close to same width and depth, just taller.

They would, of course, need to be floor standers.

Bruce

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And also because the most popular issue people point out on any "stock" Heresy, is the lack of bass.

 

No where at anytime do I think that my HI's or HII's lack bass.  Deep bass lacking?  Yes.  But what bass there is, really thumps.

 

Bill

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Well, altering the size of the cabinet

was not something I was considering,

Because I want to keep the "heresy look"

I love the style of the squat cabinet,

with the slanted risers.

I've seen some heresy mods that just add

an "extension" to the rear of the cabinet.

Making it deeper by what appears to be only a few inches?

and that same mod had

M&K woofers installed, and a tapered port

hole in the back, at the bottom of the newly added rear "extension" part.

I must admit, the M&K woofer

in the heresy cabinet looked really good.

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You could always make custom back panels (easy enough to do), throw a port in the back bottom, and throw some insulation in the cabinet, and see where that takes you. Report back on your findings.

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If your Heresy IIs are the models with rectangular terminal cups on the back, rather than the early H2 round ones, you can easily upgrade them to full Heresy III specification.  The update kits are available from Klipsch, and they are really worth it.

 

The kit includes a K-28 woofer to replace the original K-22, a new mid driver/squawker that uses the original mid horn, a new tweeter and tweeter horn, and a new and more advanced crossover, which mounts on the inside of the new terminal cup.

 

If you're not sure what the terminal cup is (it's an odd term), it's the large plastic piece that holds the external speaker connectors.  The new one is a bit different from the old one, and has four binding posts, so you can bi-wire your speakers, but most people nowadays see that as just a waste of speaker wire.  It was a popular selling feature for some time, so Klipsch provided the option.

 

As you can see, the kit includes everything but the cabinet and the midrange horn.  It increases the speaker's sensitivity by 2 dB, taking it from a very high 97 dB/W/metre to an even higher 99 dB/W/metre.  At the same time, the lower limit of bass response is improved, from 63 Hz to 58 Hz.  This is a factory kit, which turns a Heresy II into a Heresy III.  Since it would be possible to build counterfeit Heresy IIIs from scratch with these kits, Klipsch sometimes requires kit buyers to supply the serial numbers of the speakers being updated.

 

In 2008, I was using a 1989 Heresy II as a centre speaker between a pair of La Scalas.  I wanted to get a closer match in timbre between the Scalas and the H2, so I got the kit and installed it.  The improved sound was immediately obvious.  It's not a day and night change, but it is a significant upgrade.  The bass is deeper and stronger, and the new squawkers and tweeters improve the clarity of vocals and instruments.

 

The price in 2008 was around $300, but may be more like $500 per speaker today.  If that sounds like a lot of money, consider that new Heresy IIIs sell for over $1700 a pair. 

 

Here's a review of the Heresy III by The Absolute Sound.  It's from 2012.

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/klipsch-heresy-iii-loudspeaker/

 

 

The Heresy III crossover seen from the inside.  As you can see, it mounts to the inside of the terminal cup: 

 

http://s273856667.onlinehome.us/klipsch/h3c1.jpg

 

 

The Heresy III terminal cup from the outside: 

 

http://www.capitalsound.ca/assets/images/Klipsch/Heresy/Klipsch_Heresy_III_Rear_Posts.jpg

 

 

In the meantime, try to get the speakers into corners and close to the floor.

Edited by Islander
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You could always make custom back panels (easy enough to do), throw a port in the back bottom, and throw some insulation in the cabinet, and see where that takes you. Report back on your findings.

That won't help much. The Tangent is about the best way to go for a known outcome. Everything else is a tweak that may or may not be better.

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I think the best thing to do,

Is wait until I get them set up,

With my amp, and place them in the corners of the room (as suggested).

I'll let them settle in for a couple of days,

And then sit down to do some actual listening.

I love the way the heresy looks.

So I'm going to do whatever I can (within reason, and budget permitting), to get the best that I can out of them.

I've thought about it, and hacking up the beautiful cabinets of these H2's not something I want to do.

Maybe the BEC mods? Or

Maybe the klipsch upgrade kit to H3?

(these do have the square terminal cup)

So bringing them up to H3 level,

is a matter of about $600.

Maybe a combination of the two is what I'll end up with?

But, all of that being said,

There's a chance I might set them up

and be okay with how they sound (for now).

This setup will consist of

a NAD 3210 integrated amp,

a Technics SL-1200mk II turntable,

& a Creek CD-60/DAC-60 compact disc spinner.

Before I attempt any upgrades to the heresys,

I was thinking that maybe a second amplifier

might be a good thing to do first.

I love this little NAD integrated,

and I've had it for a long time

with various speakers attached to them.

But there are a lot of different flavors of amplification options out there,

and I'm thinking it might be a good time to try

tubes for the first time?

So, as the twists and turns of this beloved hobby we love so much continue to unfold...

My quest for cheap but good "starter" tube amplification begins....

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As a general recommendation (this applies to any kind of system, audio, engine, whatever), make only one change at a time, or you won't know which change did what, or if one particular change made things worse, but the worsening was masked by an improvement produced by another change.

 

Pardon me if that seems really obvious, but some people like to do everything at once, for maximum personal impact when they power on for the first time after upgrades have been done.  That's great if you're following an established "recipe", like for JubScalas, for instance, but if you're experimenting with a new combination of components it's not the most effective way to go.

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Hi Islander, I totally agree.

Any upgrades I do, will be one at a time,

for all the reasons you said, plus my budget would only allow one upgrade at a time.

But no, pointing that out is a good thing,

because the great thing about this forum, is that other people could read these posts, and learn from it.

I learned a lot just by reading some of the topics and posts from the knowledgeable folks who visit here. And a lot of my questions got answered by just searching for it in this forum, and reading what they've said about it.

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I think the best thing to do,

Is wait until I get them set up,

With my amp, and place them in the corners of the room (as suggested).

I'll let them settle in for a couple of days,

And then sit down to do some actual listening.

I love the way the heresy looks.

So I'm going to do whatever I can (within reason, and budget permitting), to get the best that I can out of them.

I've thought about it, and hacking up the beautiful cabinets of these H2's not something I want to do.

Maybe the BEC mods? Or

Maybe the klipsch upgrade kit to H3?

(these do have the square terminal cup)

So bringing them up to H3 level,

is a matter of about $600.

Maybe a combination of the two is what I'll end up with?

But, all of that being said,

There's a chance I might set them up

and be okay with how they sound (for now).

 

Yes, getting used to the sound of what you have, and optimizing it in terms of speaker position and direction is the most logical place to start.  As you said, you might well be very happy with your current gear, once its setup is fully optimized.

 

However, in the case of making changes to the Heresy IIs (BEC mods or H3 upgrade), it would be best to go with one option or the other, not a combination of the two.  I say that because the Heresy III is a current production Klipsch model, with no obvious weaknesses that have caused anyone to try to find a fix for.  BEC does great work, and H2s with BEC mods will sound better than stock H2s.  They likely would not sound as good as stock H3s, with their three new drivers and new crossover.

 

You'll want to contact Klipsch Parts for the current price and availability of Heresy III upgrade kits.

 

Klipsch Online Order Support is at 888-250-8561.

 

Klipsch Product Technical and Warranty Support is at 800-554-7724.

 

There are also links on their contact page, which is here:  http://www.klipsch.com/contact

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