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Theater Set-up Advice


Pfarinelli

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Good Day!

I have RP-280's right and left, the 450 center, the 115sw subwoofer, a velodyne spl-100r sub and mordaunt-short Carnival 3 di-poles for surrounds and rears. I have a Marantz Sr.-6010 receiver.

I utilized the Audessy set-up system to try and dial in the system. When I review the settings, there are a lot of odd figures. Center set as "Large" Distances are not accurate, etc. I am underwhelmed by the bass whether I use the 115 by itself or use both at the same time. If I switch the receiver bass setting from "lfe" to "lfe+main" the bass is much better. This seems odd to me. I'm tempted to perform my own measurements and input them, set all speakers to small, x-over at 80 hz for the mains and center and 120 he for the surrounds and rears. What do you guys think I should do?

Thank You.

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Good Day!

I have RP-280's right and left, the 450 center, the 115sw subwoofer, a velodyne spl-100r sub and mordaunt-short Carnival 3 di-poles for surrounds and rears. I have a Marantz Sr.-6010 receiver.

I utilized the Audessy set-up system to try and dial in the system. When I review the settings, there are a lot of odd figures. Center set as "Large" Distances are not accurate, etc. I am underwhelmed by the bass whether I use the 115 by itself or use both at the same time. If I switch the receiver bass setting from "lfe" to "lfe+main" the bass is much better. This seems odd to me. I'm tempted to perform my own measurements and input them, set all speakers to small, x-over at 80 hz for the mains and center and 120 he for the surrounds and rears. What do you guys think I should do?

Thank You.

 

Most people end up turning up the sub(s) by 3 to 9dB after running Audyssey.  Harman and other research has shown most people prefer a gradually declining curve that is about 10 dB lower at 20K Hz than at 20 Hz, yet one that goes down smoothly, rather than jaggedly.  You will probably never get a curve smoother than Audyssey can, with its hundreds of points of correction, but it needs to be tilted down.   Audyssey tries to make the response either flat (if you are using Audyssey FLAT) or to impose a slight Cinema curve (i.e., rolling the treble off by -2 dB at10KHz and -6dB at 20KHz, if you are using Audyssey Reference, a.k.a. just plain Audyssey on some receivers).

 

Is one of your subs more bass capable than the other?  There is a lot of discussion of the use of multiple subs on the Official Audyssey  forum, and the Official Audyssey forum part II, over on AVS.  There is a very helpful link that is much clearer than your Marantz manual.  I recommend reading all the way through; it will probably be one of the best investments in good sound you will ever make, and it's FREE: "Audyssey FAQ Linked Here"

 

After running Audyssey with all 8 mic positions, reset all your speakers to SMALL, set all crossovers to 80 (or above if your speakers won't go to 80 gracefully).  It wasn't Audyssey that set your center to LARGE.  Audyssey sent information to your Marantz on the 3 dB down point of your center, and your Marantz "decided" that would mean your center should be LARGE.  The Audyssey company urges people to set all speakers to SMALL, because most subs are better at producing bass than most full range speakers.  Since the center got set for LARGE, that told the receiver to send none of the center's bass to the subwoofer.  When you reset to LFE + Main, you got around that, and bass was sent to both the center AND the sub, which is one possible reason the bass improved.  Although most people prefer SMALL and LFE, you will have to decide if you like LARGE and LFE + MAIN better.  There may, or may not, be phase cancellation problems with this setting.  Just don't go to LARGE without LFE + Main, or your sub(s) will be underutilized. 

Edited by garyrc
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The Audyssey company urges people to set all speakers to SMALL, because most subs are better at producing bass than most full range speakers.
That's more to it than just that.

 

Setting SMALL activates a high pass filter on all the channels which allows the user to best route the signal power according to all the boundary/source interactions.

 

IOW, regardless if the speakers can play low or not, the primary goal in multi-channel setup is to keep all the channels from stepping all over one another acoustically.

 

Easier said than done.

 

Tape measure and a wavelength chart can work wonders for picking initial values during filter setup.

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Might have to re run a few times. Make sure the mic is in the perfect position. Level. Right where your head would be. Mine NAILS the distance every single time. Kind of amazes me each time I do it. And then do what everyone else does. Change all to small and 80.

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Might have to re run a few times. Make sure the mic is in the perfect position. Level. Right where your head would be. Mine NAILS the distance every single time. Kind of amazes me each time I do it. And then do what everyone else does. Change all to small and 80.

I'm almost certain this is it.  

 

Run it again, make sure the microphone is out in the open with direct lines to all the speakers except the subs.  Even if not the exact spot of your ears, it's more important it runs without anything blocking the sound.  

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I am underwhelmed by the bass whether I use the 115 by itself or use both at the same time. If I switch the receiver bass setting from "lfe" to "lfe+main" the bass is much better. This seems odd to me.

Lots of confusion as to what exactly this does:  

 

1. Basically if you run your speakers as large, you are running them full range, and if any low bass is in the channels that go to the speakers in question, it just gets sent to the speakers, and not the sub.  

 

2. If you set them to small, then any frequencies below the crossover point will be sent to the sub, and the main speakers does not play those.  There are slopes in play so it's not a brick wall, but for simplicity's sake, that's the general idea.  

 

3. LFE+Main with speakers set to large is a hybrid of these two.  Basically your mains get a full range signal, but the sub also duplicates the bass in those channels as if you had a crossover engaged.  Basically you're hearing both the subs and the towers reproduce the same bass frequencies that appear on the main channels.  Most people think it is the opposite, where the AVR duplicates the LFE channel to the mains, but it's not, it's backwards of that, it's duplicating the bass from the main channels on the sub even though you have them set to large.  

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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